REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[machin05]

Nurses might now they're having to fund their own qualifications.

 

[Papper]

Fair. But I can only really speak from my perspective, can't I?

And it was in response to "British doctors and nurses being chucked on the slagheap (sic)" which I just don't think is true at all.

Well I agree with you.

 

[Papper]

Nurses might now they're having to fund their own qualifications.

And this why we are in the EU? Party says 'no to student fees for medical staff' and they get my vote.

 

[ProgWolf]

In what way have British people been discouraged/prevented from becoming doctors and nurses since we have been members of the EU?

My Sister has been in Nursing for over 30 years. Back in the day, she went to Nursing College along with On-The-Job Training in the Wards.

Apparently the Governnent are now ending Bursaries for Nursing. So if I understand it right, if you are British and you want to become a Nurse, you will have to fork out nearly £30K to go to Uni, for the pleasure ?
Where is the incentive in that ? Again all the cards are stacked against our own people ? How can it be right for this to happen ? Why is it cheaper to 'Import' Nurses from all over the world at the expense of potential British Nurses ? Why do they need to go to Uni for three years to become a Nurse anyway ?

 

[visage]

Absolutely but now my vote can put to a government that is entirely accountable to the UK population. People like 'resigned twice' Mandelson and leader flop Kinnock and the recent Con who didn't even serve as an MP did little (when they served as commissioners) to stop ' EU ' exploitation. They are now irrelevant.

Indeed. Now replaced by such luminaries as Boris Johnson, Liam Fox and David Davies. Much better.

 

[visage]

My Sister has been in Nursing for over 30 years. Back in the day, she went to Nursing College along with On-The-Job Training in the Wards.

Apparently the Governnent are now ending Bursaries for Nursing. So if I understand it right, if you are British and you want to become a Nurse, you will have to fork out nearly £30K to go to Uni, for the pleasure ?
Where is the incentive in that ? Again all the cards are stacked against our own people ? How can it be right for this to happen ? Why is it cheaper to 'Import' Nurses from all over the world at the expense of potential British Nurses ? Why do they need to go to Uni for three years to become a Nurse anyway ?

And how will leaving the EU help that?

 

[ProgWolf]

My Sister has been in Nursing for over 30 years. Back in the day, she went to Nursing College along with On-The-Job Training in the Wards.

Apparently the Governnent are now ending Bursaries for Nursing. So if I understand it right, if you are British and you want to become a Nurse, you will have to fork out nearly £30K to go to Uni, for the pleasure ?
Where is the incentive in that ? Again all the cards are stacked against our own people ? How can it be right for this to happen ? Why is it cheaper to 'Import' Nurses from all over the world at the expense of potential British Nurses ? Why do they need to go to Uni for three years to become a Nurse anyway ?

Not saying this is anything to do with the EU, just so bloody annoying that British people can't get the Qualifications for free. What do other EU Countries do for their own people who want to become Nurses. At a guess I would say they make it a lot easier ?

 

[Papper]

Why do they need to go to Uni for three years to become a Nurse anyway ?

I agree with the majority of what you say but you're way off the mark here.

 

[visage]

Not saying this is anything to do with the EU, just so bloody annoying that British people can't get the Qualifications for free. What do other EU Countries do for their own people who want to become Nurses. At a guess I would say they make it a lot easier ?

Theres a common theme among you, THM and Papper - you correctly identify many systemic issues facing the UK, but then you think that leaving the EU will solve them.

Its not the EU stopping the government paying Doctors and nurses more. Its not the EU stopping the government from raising the minimum wage, and its not the EU stopping the government from restricting non-EU immigration as much as they want and its not the EU that stopped the government from applying restrictions to EU immigration.

So, given all that, what will leaving the EU actually do?

 

[So Long Architect]

Not saying this is anything to do with the EU, just so bloody annoying that British people can't get the Qualifications for free. What do other EU Countries do for their own people who want to become Nurses. At a guess I would say they make it a lot easier ?

All I can say is that I hope you have voted for political parties that understand the value of education and training, or if you haven't in the past, you will in the future.

While I'm here, are you able to tell me any ways in which life will improve for impoverished British people now we've left the EU? THM's doctors and nurses thing seems not to be one of them.

 

[Papper]

Theres a common theme among you, THM and Papper - you correctly identify many systemic issues facing the UK, but then you think that leaving the EU will solve them.

Its not the EU stopping the government paying Doctors and nurses more. Its not the EU stopping the government from raising the minimum wage, and its not the EU stopping the government from restricting non-EU immigration as much as they want and its not the EU that stopped the government from applying restrictions to EU immigration.

So, given all that, what will leaving the EU actually do?

The EU didn't do enough to convince me of it's benefits. If it promotes fleeing your country to be exploited elsewhere is empowering for anybody then they can shove it. There is nothing the EU has done that cannot be done directly through our democratic process- we're very good at that. I think we're dominated by Corporations (who pull the strings) and the best way to rid us of these parasites is directly to a wholly accountable parliament. My hope is that politics changes, new solutions become apparent and people cease being labels used to divide.

 

[visage]

The EU didn't do enough to convince me of it's benefits. If it promotes fleeing your country to be exploited elsewhere is empowering for anybody then they can shove it.

Are people like THM being exploited?

There is nothing the EU has done that cannot be done directly through our democratic process- we're very good at that.

Our democratic process cant give UK citizens the right to live and work in other countries.

I think we're dominated by Corporations (who pull the strings) and the best way to rid us of these parasites is directly to a wholly accountable parliament. My hope is that politics changes, new solutions become apparent and people cease being labels used to divide.

So non-EU countries are free from corporate influence? :rofl:

If you think the UK parliament is free from corporate influence then you're deluded.

 

[Papper]

Are people like THM being exploited?



Our democratic process cant give UK citizens the right to live and work in other countries.



So non-EU countries are free from corporate influence? :rofl:

If you think the UK parliament is free from corporate influence then you're deluded.

I never said it wasn't which is why I am quite glad I can now vote in people who also think the Corporates have too much hold over us. I'm looking for the left to reinvent itself and its just a start. I never pretended Brexit would bring instant miracles. Don't know much about THM but I assume he isn't exploited and no doubt his spending power is quite welcome. He is not a economic migrant working for low pay in a low skilled job. There is no reason why migration anywhere within the EU should cease unless its low paid exploited labour.

 

[Parkins left foot]

I don't believe the EU in it's current form is fit for purpose, it is neither one thing or the other. A single market that operates across borders I can live with, access to which requires members to adhere to common standards. But there is no need for the European Parliament - the governance of a single market could be managed by government ministers from each country cabinet style. However it isn't a federal state either but continues to have aspirations in that way...so it ends up being neither one or the other.

It became clear during the referendum campaign that the alternative being offered to the EU was little more than pandering to those undertones I referred to earlier and everything that Theresa May has done since has confirmed that. Had the leave campaign said we'll leave the EU and actively press for a Norwegian type solution likely I would have voted leave - not because I think that Norway's relationship is perfect but it if there were more Norway's it would be easier to move away from where it is now into a looser arrangement.

This is my view as well - freedom of movement for access to the single market was not the issue the structure/general centrist federal movement was. A Norwegian style relationship is OK though would need some fine tuning from what they have managed to obtain which hopefully our larger economic relationship could achieve.

Worries now it that the crass way May & Co are going about this will destroy any possibility of a sensible outcome both for the UK & the EU

 

[So Long Architect]

I've read several Norwegian commentators saying that we really shouldn't be aiming for the type of deal they've got. They still have to pay to have access to the club, still have to abide by all the rules, but have no say in the running of the club or its direction. Though I imagine that's still better than no access to the single market at all.

 

[Parkins left foot]

I've read several Norwegian commentators saying that we really shouldn't be aiming for the type of deal they've got. They still have to pay to have access to the club, still have to abide by all the rules, but have no say in the running of the club or its direction. Though I imagine that's still better than no access to the single market at all.

I was aware of that, but would hope that as a much more significant trading partner with the rest of the EU & a much larger economy that we could negotiate a variation of their deal to not include some of the negatives (rest of the EU have more to gain by not shafting us entirely - unless it's just purely for spite & sod the effects on the general population - theirs & ours).

Doesn't look likely given the current Governments approach to this issue anyway so probably fairly academic

 

[Papper]

I've read several Norwegian commentators saying that we really shouldn't be aiming for the type of deal they've got. They still have to pay to have access to the club, still have to abide by all the rules, but have no say in the running of the club or its direction. Though I imagine that's still better than no access to the single market at all.

But surely the market of whatever form it takes is better without protectionism and dependent on free market forces. The EU want our money so there is plenty to bargain over. We're one of the wealthier nations in this zone so what benefit does it accrue to the others to play hard ball with us? It's the same old Corporates looking for the same buck. It will actually create opportunities within this country both domestically and abroad - closed markets will become open. They want our cash ! You cannot predict or plan anything but base economics don't put us in a bad or dependent position.

 

[So Long Architect]

But surely the market of whatever form it takes is better without protectionism and dependent on free market forces. The EU want our money so there is plenty to bargain over. We're one of the wealthier nations in this zone so what benefit does it accrue to the others to play hard ball with us? It's the same old Corporates looking for the same buck. It will actually create opportunities within this country both domestically and abroad - closed markets will become open. They want our cash ! You cannot predict or plan anything but base economics don't put us in a bad or dependent position.

Because it's not all about money. It's also about politics. 27 other nations have their domestic constituencies to think about and most of their politicians are keen to stay within the EU at the moment. Giving the UK a nice, easy ride probably isn't high on their to-do list.

 

[So Long Architect]

And we've essentially gone from being in a position of being partners and part of a co-operative organisation to being competitors - and the rhetoric from our esteemed leaders has been very combative. So if we're now competing with rather than working with the EU, then we can only expect them to compete back.

 

[leedswolf]

Yeah, but they need us more than we need them.