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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

It's not about either/or. I want to be both. I was born both. I've enjoyed benefits of both. It's unfair that one of these things is taken away from me against my will, and further still tries to tell me to stop moaning and get on with it, when I voice my displeasure.
 
Surely you can live somewhere and not be 'patriotic' to that country where you live?
 
thehistorymakers said:
Surely there you are being patriotic to the EU? just not your own country.
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Its not about patriotism - its about what it gives you. EU citizenship gives you the right to live and work in any EU country - clearly thats much more valuable than mere UK citizenship.
 
The EU as described here - https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-in-brief_en is something I fully supported and wanted to remain a member of. I now need to go to the trouble of getting my Irish passport to retain those benefits.

For all its flaws - and there are many, as there are in any complex organisation- it is, in my view, "a good thing" and the UK will be a poorer, meaner, smaller place for having left - yes, economically, but just as importantly for me, socially and culturally.

Am I "patriotic" about it? No. But then I'm not patriotic about Britain either - to be aggressively and defensively proud (and most patriotism seems to manifest itself this way) of where you happened to end up on a little bit of rock floating through infinite space seems a bit odd to me, but I realise I'm probably unusual in feeling that way.
 
So Long Architect said:
The EU as described here - https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/eu-in-brief_en is something I fully supported and wanted to remain a member of. I now need to go to the trouble of getting my Irish passport to retain those benefits.

For all its flaws - and there are many, as there are in any complex organisation- it is, in my view, "a good thing" and the UK will be a poorer, meaner, smaller place for having left - yes, economically, but just as importantly for me, socially and culturally.

Am I "patriotic" about it? No. But then I'm not patriotic about Britain either - to be aggressively and defensively proud (and most patriotism seems to manifest itself this way) of where you happened to end up on a little bit of rock floating through infinite space seems a bit odd to me, but I realise I'm probably unusual in feeling that way.
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Well, yeah, but apparently leaving the EU will mean that workers at the bottom of the pile will now have amazing lives. I have it on good authority that the day after Brexit they'll all be given the pay rises that the EU has stopped them getting. FACT.
 
Visage said:
Well, yeah, but apparently leaving the EU will mean that workers at the bottom of the pile will now have amazing lives. I have it on good authority that the day after Brexit they'll all be given the pay rises that the EU has stopped them getting. FACT.
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Poverty in Britain will be outlawed on April 1st 2019
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Remain had little to work with. Their strongest point was the possible impact on the economy but the leave campaign were able to successfully drown that out with the "project fear" response. They were unable (or unwilling) to deal with the leave arguments about immigration which left the leave campaign's strongest position unchallenged.

In the end, a very complicated issue was reduced to a binary decision on the back of a campaign that most reasonable people accept was poor by both sides.

I have said before, I started out as a leave voter but my vote changed because if the leave campaign and it's frankly racist undertones. I have absolutely no doubt that it was the dog whistle arguments on immigration that swung the vote to leave. The debate about immigration, far from being enhanced by the referendum, has descended into a situation where people feel empowered to say things that in my opinion are unacceptable.
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This interests me. We all knew the Leave Camp would hammer home Immigration / Freedom of Movement. So, putting that aside, why were you originally going to vote Leave ?
 
Cyber-_-man said:
674 million was paid out by the NHS to other countries to cover costs of UK citizens abroad while just 49 mi!lion was paid back. I am sorry I see 600 million difference as worthy of a few phone calls and a bit of action! That is 10 pounds for every adult in the UK.
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My guess would be more UK citizens holiday in Europe than EU citizens holiday here. Will try and get some figures to hopefully back this up later, but that would be my guess.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
674 million was paid out by the NHS to other countries to cover costs of UK citizens abroad while just 49 mi!lion was paid back. I am sorry I see 600 million difference as worthy of a few phone calls and a bit of action! That is 10 pounds for every adult in the UK.
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That is a total disgrace. They just had a U-Turn on increasing N.I. for the self employed. What stops them getting back the £600M we are owed ? That's our EU exit bill paid then ?
 
Our exit bill is a lot more than £600m :icon_lol:

While I wouldn't disagree that it's a recoverable cost (if you can prove it), you have to remember that chasing money in such a way costs money in itself. Then suddenly that £600m is diminished by a long, long way. And it becomes not worth bothering with, as perverse as it sounds. To us, £250m (let's say) is a hell of a lot of money. It's chickenfeed in the context of a national budget.
 
To you or I, 600m is a lot. For the UK it's a rounding error.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
No I didn't.

I said fears about immigration, stoked by people like Farage.
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No fears but concerns about immigration created people like Farage. But, for many (including people like Corbyn) it went deeper than that.
 
In Lincolnshire the rich got richer and the poor didn't.

You can see that in the local pay statistics. Boston has always been a low-pay town. But it is now an exceptionally low-paid place.

The average hourly wage nationally is £13.33. Across the East Midlands, it is £12.26. In Boston, it is £9.13. On a weekly basis, full-time earnings are more than £100 a week less than the national average.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36258541
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
I value freedom of movement. EU wide health insurance. My ability to work outside the UK without challenge. And all of those for my children as well.

Rather more important to me than a load of John Bull patriotic tub-thumping.
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And why won't that continue? Why did the people of Luton vote for Brexit?
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
Our exit bill is a lot more than £600m :icon_lol:

While I wouldn't disagree that it's a recoverable cost (if you can prove it), you have to remember that chasing money in such a way costs money in itself. Then suddenly that £600m is diminished by a long, long way. And it becomes not worth bothering with, as perverse as it sounds. To us, £250m (let's say) is a hell of a lot of money. It's chickenfeed in the context of a national budget.
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Yep, apparently so is the £60Bn we'll be paying in interest on the national debt per annum by 2020.
 
Trips said:
Campaign was ran awfully, played on fear too much rather than the benefits of the EU, and they didn't challenge the lies coming from the leave side enough.
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Yes, and the short term disaster didn't hit us in fact growth figures were raised. The scaremongering now moves on to the longer term with the same economic scaremongers. Anyway, its pointless arguing - we're OUT :happy:
 
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