REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Trips]

You don't think the numbers disproportionate? If 50% of stop and searches were made on eastern Europeans in Melton mowbay the Leicestershire crime commissioner would have questions to answer methinks, so why no questions on the disproportionate funds being reclaimed?

That is a sample of one visit to one hospital. Not overly comprehensive data.

I'm struggling to see what the issue is, apart from there were 11 foreigners in A+E.

 

[ProgWolf]

You know those Lincolnshire voters they voted Leave. You know why, right?

Know what I mean?

Why, because they were into 'Photography' ??

 

[ProgWolf]

You keep demanding that others answer this. Why dont you start the ball rolling?

....because they were sick to death with the amount of Eastern Europeans coming into their area. I thought everyone knew that.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

That is a sample of one visit to one hospital. Not overly comprehensive data.

I'm struggling to see what the issue is, apart from there were 11 foreigners in A+E.

Fucks sake! We claim back from the EU members less than 10% of what the health service spends on EU citizens . On that day at that time 50% of the patients should have incurred an EU charge or claim back! Why the fuck is it not happening if the NHS is skint and under financial strain?

 

[visage]

....because they were sick to death with the amount of Eastern Europeans coming into their area. I thought everyone knew that.

See, now we're getting somewhere.

So the people if Lincolnshire wanted rid of Eastern Europeans. Fine.

So why did they employ so many of them?

 

[Penk Wolf]

I had to Visit the emergency care clinic in Melton mowbray yesterday. There were 22 of us. 11 were eastern European . 4 spoke no English or claimed not to.All were seen. I was among the last to be seen after about 1.5 hours. Now given the huge disparity in what EU countries give us in payment to what we pay out I see where this could be seen as an issue. To my knowledge Melton mowbray does not have a 50% eastern European population.

Now I don't see this post as racist. I am pointing out one reason that voters may feel the system is not working efficiently for the UK NHS . This is not an anecdote. Its a fact witnessed by me. I saw no additional forms filled out. No difference in treatment or care so I presume there was no difference between a UK citizen and an EU citizen. I was asked no differential question

My point is why the fuck are we not claiming this money back and reinvesting it in the NHS? NHS workers please let me know

I'm more concerned that you surveyed everyone whilst you were there.

 

[visage]

Fucks sake! We claim back from the EU members less than 10% of what the health service spends on EU citizens . On that day at that time 50% of the patients should have incurred an EU charge or claim back! Why the fuck is it not happening if the NHS is skint and under financial strain?

Because health tourism is a very small proportion of the NHS budget?

https://fullfact.org/health/health-tourism-whats-cost/

 

[thehistorymakers]

See, now we're getting somewhere.

So the people if Lincolnshire wanted rid of Eastern Europeans. Fine.

So why did they employ so many of them?

And where did all the British workers dissappear overnight? that had been working there before the Eastern Europeans arrived.

 

[Trips]

Fucks sake! We claim back from the EU members less than 10% of what the health service spends on EU citizens . On that day at that time 50% of the patients should have incurred an EU charge or claim back! Why the fuck is it not happening if the NHS is skint and under financial strain?

How many of the 11 people in there had jobs and paid taxes?

 

[visage]

And where did all the British workers dissappear overnight? that had been working there before the Eastern Europeans arrived.

I don't know. Where?

 

[ProgWolf]

See, now we're getting somewhere.

So the people if Lincolnshire wanted rid of Eastern Europeans. Fine.

So why did they employ so many of them?

Only a tiny percentage of the people of Lincolnshire are Employers of East Europeans ? The vast majority of working people in Lincs would not have wanted them employed there. How did they cope filling all those jobs before they arrived ? I cannot remember Immigration ever being an issue in that part of the country up until a few years ago ?

 

[Kenny]

I don't know. Where?

Killed by the EU. Obvs

 

[ProgWolf]

How many of the 11 people in there had jobs and paid taxes?

What's that got to do with us claiming back money from the EU for NHS Treatment received from EU Citizens living in the UK ?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Because if they work here and are taxed here they have already paid.

 

[Trips]

What's that got to do with us claiming back money from the EU for NHS Treatment received from EU Citizens living in the UK ?

Because the NHS is provided for people that live in Britain, it isn't there just for British people. If they are working here, paying taxes and contributing NI, why should we charge the EU extra for this. Surely they are paying their way?

 

[ProgWolf]

Because if they work here and are taxed here they have already paid.

But my understanding is that we can claim back money from the EU for NHS Treatment received from EU Citizens living in the UK ?

Or have I misunderstood ?

 

[ProgWolf]

Because the NHS is provided for people that live in Britain, it isn't there just for British people. If they are working here, paying taxes and contributing NI, why should we charge the EU extra for this. Surely they are paying their way?

I just thought that Cyber was right in that we can claim money back from the EU but for some reason choose not to.

I was just after clarification of the EU rule on this ?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Ok, the football has finished so I'll respond to this properly now. See, I'll grant you that respect even though I don't agree with you on any level whatsoever.

You put the link up so I listened to it. Is that a problem ? Do you really think that people always say what they really think in front of a camera ? People are reluctant to openly say they have a problem with immigration through fear of being called a racist. It's been like that for years, mainly because of Blair, Mandelson and New Labour. As for the guy in the video, who am I to call him a liar ? I am giving my opinion.

Of all the video links you could have put up, why did you choose that one. Why do you think Lincs voted 70% to Leave ?

Thank you for watching it but I don't think you did listen, did you? You asked for the views of Lincolnshire residents. I gave you one. He doesn't agree with your preconceptions so you dismiss it, he's either lying or atypical. It's not like he's been accosted on the street and asked to give a one sentence interview in the next ten seconds is it? Look at the context. He's thought about what he's going to say.

You are of course free to post your own videos of Lincolnshire residents explaining the opposite point of view, I will watch and listen to them.

When I said 'We got to vote again' why have you responded so aggressively to that ? You liked being an EU Citizen. Millions of us see ourselves as English or British. Certainly not European. As for putting people in a Pigeonhole, we all do it everyday don't we ?

You might pigeonhole people, I don't. I explained why I responded in that way to you so I'll do it again as it hasn't sunk in - what do you think this is, a revenge crusade on behalf of the people who voted a certain way in 1975 (!) and have felt betrayed since?! Anyone who voted in that referendum must have been at the very least 59 years old by the time last year's vote came around. As I say, that demographic does not have a monopoly on what the country feels. I mean the numbers back it up - old people voted to Leave, young people didn't - but how breathtakingly arrogant do you have to be to talk about your section of society as "we" and dress that up as the feelings of the entire country? You do realise that over 48% of the voters disagree with you? Right?

I completely understand that the majority of the country doesn't agree with me. That's fine, I'm used to it, I can deal with it. What I'd like is a proper explanation from those who voted to Leave why they did what they did and where we go from here.

I really don't see the point in debating with you though. How can you have a rational debate with someone who is clearly so very angry with my points of view. I suggested that people who live in South Staffs may have a problem with understanding the concerns of working class people in an ethnically diverse council estate in Wolverhampton that has changed beyond all recognition over the last 10 years or so. That is what really upset you. That's why you are so angry. I wasn't trying to pigeonhole you or judge you. I was just saying it as I saw it. Some of your opinions about me have annoyed me too. But we should both be old enough and ugly enough to take that on the chin.

To reiterate, that is not what "upset" me and please don't ever tell me why I think what I think, you don't know me. What did annoy me last week was you trying to tell me that I think a certain way because of where I live. How deeply offensive can you get?

I'm one of the people that didn't go into further education, leaving a comprehensive school at sixteen. You cant really expect me to have an intellectual debate can you. My first ban is looming soon from Vis. I've seen this thread for what it is. You will be pleased to hear that I really don't think I have the will to post on it much longer anyway. Based on much of what I have seen on here, I don't like many of the people that post on here. We only wind each other up and there are plenty more forums out there on the EU. Like SLR said, why should I care what a few football fans think about Immigration or the EU.

What do you want me to do? Make Joey Deacon noises when I internally read your posts? Only posts in words of two syllables when I reply to you? How about I square up to Anthony Joshua and then say "oh by the way mate, I'm not a pro boxer so hold back on the old punching bit, eh"? You aren't thick so don't play up to that, please. You're quite capable of debate so don't pretend you aren't. And if you enter into debate then you can't run away while expecting credibility.

I'm perfectly willing to discuss matters properly with you but your attitude is shocking, sorry to say.

 

[Trips]

I just thought that Cyber was right in that we can claim money back from the EU but for some reason choose not to.

I was just after clarification of the EU rule on this ?

They can claim back for visitors from the EU, ie people who come for holidays. If they are residents here we don't claim back.

 

[ProgWolf]

For the Remain Voters, I just wondered what you think the Remain campaign could have done better, to ensure that we stayed in the EU ?

After all, the overall vote was very close and I thought that a genuine concession on Freedom of Movement for a fixed period may have done the trick ? Or was it more complicated than that ?