REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Jolemai]

Lord Sainsbury will never get another penny from me. I said a long time a go, about him taking workers from eastern Europe, through job agencies. The $#@! can eat $#@!. Of course he was one of the biggest backers of the remain campaign. He doesn"t care one iota for Human beins, just money. He can eat hose $#@! now.

I'm sorry. I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

I'm sorry. I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

Nothing new there then.

 

[thehistorymakers]

"The short answer to what happens next with pollution, wildlife, farming, green energy, climate change and more is we don’t know – we are in uncharted territory. But all the indications – from the “red-tape” slashing desires of the Brexiters to the judgment of environmental professionals – are that the protections for our environment will get weaker.

From the air we breathe to the food we eat to the climate we live in, how we protect and enhance the environment underpins the healthy and happy lives we all aspire to, now and for generations to come.

The Brexit vote leaves it highly uncertain which protections will remain in place and the prospect of improving them seems remote. Nigel Farage, the politician who did more than anyone to force the EU referendum, doesn’t even think climate change is a problem and wants to scrap pollution limits on power stations.

With 400,000 early deaths a year from air pollution – 40,000 in the UK – the EU saw things differently and set new legal limits in 2010. Many UK cities and towns remain above those limits today and campaigners have used EU rules to successfully sue the UK government. But UK ministers are even now fighting new EU rules to reduce early deaths. Pollution does not stop in its tracks at national borders, and 88% of environment professionals in the UK think an EU-wide policy is needed.

Earlier legal action from the EU forced the UK to clean up its sewage-strewn beaches, while many of the protections for nature and wildlife across the nation stem from EU rules."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...xit-live-europe-leave-remain-britain#comments

Green fields my arse, but back to your Janet and John book if that pleases you.

Bad loser. Have some dignity FFS.

 

[playtheace]

THIS BLOKE
EATING THIS

 

[So Long Architect]

Lord Sainsbury will never get another penny from me. I said a long time a go, about him taking workers from eastern Europe, through job agencies. The cunt can eat shit. Of course he was one of the biggest backers of the remain campaign. He doesn"t care one iota for Human Beings, just money. He can eat hose shit now.

Meant to ask, did you ever find your tractor?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Immigration in my opinion, now you tell me why nearly every traditional Labour supporter north of Watford has no faith in Corbyn.

Not even in Watford.hahaha

 

[Jolemai]

Immigration in my opinion, now you tell me why nearly every traditional Labour supporter north of Watford has no faith in Corbyn.

If immigration concerns are the cause of it, then the PLP is the one at odds with the Labour voters as they backed remain (which meant Corbyn had to back remain).

As for the other bit, I can't answer that as it seems like speculation. I don't see why people should be obliged to vote with their leaders. Wales voted against the wishes of Welsh Labour and Plaid after all - doesn't mean they have no faith in them.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Meant to ask, did you ever find your tractor?

Yes thanks. It was outside a bar in the village. Haha

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Immigration in my opinion, now you tell me why nearly every traditional Labour supporter north of Watford has no faith in Corbyn.

If I may intercede. Can I draw your attention to the post earlier from THM where he referred to Cameron's nasty fear campaign (I paraphrase THM but I think that was the gist. I am sure he can tidy the quote a little if needs be).

There's an answer. Cameron, for better or quite clearly for worse, has been seen as the face of remain. Without a very strong message from Jeremy Corbyn that was spectacularly aligned to Cameron on this point and this point alone, you are going to struggle to make Labour voters want to vote on the same side as a man who is political anathema to them.

Corbyn really needed to engage that electorate to come out en bloc as labour voters and follow the line he wanted. And he didn't put enough hard yards in to get it at all. And the UKIP performance in those areas a year ago should have been the warning that this could happen.

 

[playtheace]

If I may intercede. Can I draw your attention to the post earlier from THM where he referred to Cameron's nasty fear campaign (I paraphrase THM but I think that was the gist. I am sure he can tidy the quote a little if needs be).

There's an answer. Cameron, for better or quite clearly for worse, has been seen as the face of remain. Without a very strong message from Jeremy Corbyn that was spectacularly aligned to Cameron on this point and this point alone, you are going to struggle to make Labour voters want to vote on the same side as a man who is political anathema to them.

Corbyn really needed to engage that electorate to come out en bloc as labour voters and follow the line he wanted. And he didn't put enough hard yards in to get it at all. And the UKIP performance in those areas a year ago should have been the warning that this could happen.

You could see Corbyn was never going to do that from day one.
I remember a slight smirk on his face when the Johnson "firing squad" quote was relayed to him.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Bad loser. Have some dignity FFS.

It seemed a reasonable comment.

We do need to consider the environmental impact here. A lot of environmental legislation is EU powered at the moment. UK legislation will need to pick up that slack. It can be done, but it is another thing that needs to go on the to-do list (which is not going to be a short document).

 

[ROVERT47]

If I may intercede. Can I draw your attention to the post earlier from THM where he referred to Cameron's nasty fear campaign (I paraphrase THM but I think that was the gist. I am sure he can tidy the quote a little if needs be).

There's an answer. Cameron, for better or quite clearly for worse, has been seen as the face of remain. Without a very strong message from Jeremy Corbyn that was spectacularly aligned to Cameron on this point and this point alone, you are going to struggle to make Labour voters want to vote on the same side as a man who is political anathema to them.

Corbyn really needed to engage that electorate to come out en bloc as labour voters and follow the line he wanted. And he didn't put enough hard yards in to get it at all. And the UKIP performance in those areas a year ago should have been the warning that this could happen.

Totally agree Paddy.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

You could see Corbyn was never going to do that from day one.
I remember a slight smirk on his face when the Johnson "firing squad" quote was relayed to him.

And that will probably be his downfall too.

Massive repurcussions to be felt from last night. In all sorts of areas. It is going to take some time for the dust to settle on the brave new world we as an electorate have created for ourselves.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

You could move to Westminster or Winchester, they feel the same as you.

Great to see the working class, From the north, Wolverhampton, Dudley, Birmingham, Coventry ect refusing to be bullied by Cameron and his fear campaign.

Well, you've got the result you wanted, phew. Which I'm sure is of great comfort given you don't live in the UK.

However:

- This forum is almost exclusively populated by Wolves fans, of whom it stands to reason the great majority have roots in or currently live near Wolverhampton.

- Most people on here have at the very least, serious fears about where we're heading as a result of this result and majority opinion was that we should vote to Remain.

So you must see it isn't reasonable to lump the 'working class' together in a lump and conclude that they share your opinion, that the EU is responsible for all our current and historical ills and that we needed to leave at all costs, and we'll just take a bit of a flying leap on the consequences. I don't personally know more than two or three people who voted to Leave out of an extended circle of say, 300 odd friends and acquaintances. Now maybe I mix in the wrong circles, what with my aspirations to join the socialist elite and me having an 'education' which means I prefer to base my political decisions on 'logic' and 'facts' and 'reason'. But I don't think this has anything to do with the working man deciding to stand up for his rights (which ironically, were much better protected in the EU than they will be under our new UltraTory Government).

 

[ROVERT47]

Not even in Watford.hahaha

Quite, Sadik Khan did all he could to keep him as far away as possible from the London Mayor election.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I think that many Scotish people voted Remain, not because they love the EU, but they saw it as an opportunity to get a second chance at an independence vote. The same in Northern Ireland. A shame but Sinn Fein playing with democracy, knowing a referendum, could bring them closer to united Ireland. Gibralta the same, more about personal interests than a love for the EU. It looks to me as though nationalists have voted for their interests, more than a love of the EU.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I think you are wrong about the motivations north of the border. it will be the result, but think that is the symptom, and not the root cause.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Well, you've got the result you wanted, phew. Which I'm sure is of great comfort given you don't live in the UK.

However:

- This forum is almost exclusively populated by Wolves fans, of whom it stands to reason the great majority have roots in or currently live near Wolverhampton.

- Most people on here have at the very least, serious fears about where we're heading as a result of this result and majority opinion was that we should vote to Remain.

So you must see it isn't reasonable to lump the 'working class' together in a lump and conclude that they share your opinion, that the EU is responsible for all our current and historical ills and that we needed to leave at all costs, and we'll just take a bit of a flying leap on the consequences. I don't personally know more than two or three people who voted to Leave out of an extended circle of say, 300 odd friends and acquaintances. Now maybe I mix in the wrong circles, what with my aspirations to join the socialist elite and me having an 'education' which means I prefer to base my political decisions on 'logic' and 'facts' and 'reason'. But I don't think this has anything to do with the working man deciding to stand up for his rights (which ironically, were much better protected in the EU than they will be under our new UltraTory Government).

Don't agree. I do believe the old industrialised north and midlands ( working class) did vote to leave the EU. That to me has always been the problem with the remain voters on this forum, you couldn't see it.

Workers rights in the EU. Tell that to the 62% youth unemployed in my city. I didn't see many workers rights, for the British workers, who have been overlooked time and time again.

 

[So Long Architect]

I think that many Scotish people voted Remain, not because they love the EU, but they saw it as an opportunity to get a second chance at an independence vote. The same in Northern Ireland. A shame but Sinn Fein playing with democracy, knowing a referendum, could bring them closer to united Ireland. Gibralta the same, more about personal interests than a love for the EU. It looks to me as though nationalists have voted for their interests, more than a love of the EU.

You have an amazing insight into the motivations of vast swathes of people - the working class, the Scots, the Irish, the socialist elite... Is there any group on earth you are unsure about?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Why would unemployed people have workers rights?