REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[thehistorymakers]

No one else is going to do it though. A voice is better than no voice.

I don't agree with that. If you want to divide people and stir up anger, he is the man.Tony Blair and WMD, with hundreds of thousands of lives lost, because of his"missions", means he has no integrity. He has been a very bad judge about what is right for the UK, he is a vile man, Dan.

 

[Lord Knows]

The EU do not want the UK to leave the EU. Giving the people another vote at the end, would make the EU'S job of trying to get us to stay in, very easy. They will not give us a deal, which the people will accept, play very hard, to get the people to change their minds about leaving. Of course you would want another vote at the end, you want to stay in the EU and would be hoping the EU would change our democratic choice, which we have already made.
We have to go in to these negotiations, being fair, but also making sure that the EU know that whatever happens, we have already made our democratic choice and what ever happens in the negotiations, we are leaving.
This way, we will get a better deal, to leave the EU.

Many people placed their vote on the assumption that the UK would remain in the single market plus receive an extra 350 million per week for the NHS.
If thats changed does that make the initial vote null and void?

 

[thehistorymakers]

You were asked on numerous occasions "What specific laws have the EU undemocratically passed that you don't like?"

If you have posted an answer to this, I apologise and will find it. However, all I've seen is you say they make decisions behind closed doors. That doesn't answer the question (that at least 3 different people asked you)

Yes and I said that EU commisioners aren't democratic and accountable. I showed you that the commisioner we send there swears allegiance to the EU and at no time must represent the country which sent him there. There is no accountability. That is what my gripe with the lack of democracy in the EU is.
As you know, this got very boring yesterday and I think we agreed to move on. Haha

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It got boring because you were told how democratically elected governments select commissioners, and you obfuscated, deflected and ignored it. Many many times.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Many people placed their vote on the assumption that the UK would remain in the single market plus receive an extra 350 million per week for the NHS.
If thats changed does that make the initial vote null and void?

Look at the Tory manifesto. It was a vote to Leave or remain. If we stay in the single market, the EU won't let us have sovereignty or control our own borders, so we would not have left. As we have voted to leave, the EU won't Allow us to leave, have our complete sovereignty and be in the single market. So the single market is not an option.

Really to say people believed this or that, is not a good argument. There would be things that you were led to believe are true or false, that weren't the case. I trust you can make a mature decision about what you believe or don't. Well then you should think the same about the people who voted to leave.

 

[Trips]

Yes and I said that EU commisioners aren't democratic and accountable. I showed you that the commisioner we send there swears allegiance to the EU and at no time must represent the country which sent him there. There is no accountability. That is what my gripe with the lack of democracy in the EU is.
As you know, this got very boring yesterday and I think we agreed to move on. Haha

Yet again, you've ignored the question. Not going round in circles on this again.

 

[thehistorymakers]

It got boring because you were told how democratically elected governments select commissioners, and you obfuscated, deflected and ignored it. Many many times.

Paddy, I think you are wrong and I politely demonstrated it, but you refuse to acknowledge it. We agreed we were going round in circles, I didn't agree I was wrong. We decided to move on as it was getting boring.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Look at the Tory manifesto. It was a vote to Leave or remain. If we stay in the single market, the EU won't let us have sovereignty or control our own borders, so we would not have left. As we have voted to leave, the EU won't Allow us to leave, have our complete sovereignty and be in the single market. So the single market is not an option.

Really to say people believed this or that, is not a good argument. There would be things that you were led to believe are true or false, that weren't the case. I trust you can make a mature decision about what you believe or don't. Well then you should think the same about the people who voted to leave.

Look at what the leave campaign said in the build up to the vote. To summarise, we can get our border control and stay in the single market. Always going to be pie in the sky, and to then try and blame the EU for not lying down rolling over and allow us to scratch their bellies is just ridiculous.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Paddy, I think you are wrong and I politely demonstrated it, but you refuse to acknowledge it. We agreed we were going round in circles, I didn't agree I was wrong. We decided to move on as it was getting boring.

You didn't demonstrate a thing. You ignored factual truths. Which is shameful.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Yet again, you've ignored the question. Not going round in circles on this again.

It is quite easy to understand my logic, my problem with the EU commisioners, is not what things they have passed that are undemocratic, I have shown that commisioners are undemocratic, so therefore, all the laws that they pass are undemocratic.
Can you imagine asking me what laws did the Soviet Union pass that were undemocratic,, well you would get the same answer. The Soviet Union was undemocratic, so all the laws they passed were undemocratic. Same logic.

 

[thehistorymakers]

You didn't demonstrate a thing. You ignored factual truths. Which is shameful.

Haha

 

[thehistorymakers]

Look at what the leave campaign said in the build up to the vote. To summarise, we can get our border control and stay in the single market. Always going to be pie in the sky, and to then try and blame the EU for not lying down rolling over and allow us to scratch their bellies is just ridiculous.

Old argument that has been torn to pieces. We know what we voted for, Remain or leave.

 

[visage]

It is quite easy to understand my logic, my problem with the EU commisioners, is not what things they have passed that are undemocratic, I have shown that commisioners are undemocratic, so therefore, all the laws that they pass are undemocratic.
Can you imagine asking me what laws did the Soviet Union pass that were undemocratic,, well you would get the same answer. They are undemocratic.

So, by your argument, the House of Lords is unelected, therefore undemocratic. They passed the article 50 invocation bill, so therefore invocation of article 50 is undemocratic.

Right?

 

[thehistorymakers]

I have things to do know. Tony Blair, FFS. Haha

 

[Lord Knows]

Look at the Tory manifesto. It was a vote to Leave or remain. If we stay in the single market, the EU won't let us have sovereignty or control our own borders, so we would not have left. As we have voted to leave, the EU won't Allow us to leave, have our complete sovereignty and be in the single market. So the single market is not an option.

Really to say people believed this or that, is not a good argument. There would be things that you were led to believe are true or false, that weren't the case. I trust you can make a mature decision about what you believe or don't. Well then you should think the same about the people who voted to leave.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...le-market-yes-article-50-latest-a7531156.html

 

[thehistorymakers]

So, by your argument, the House of Lords is unelected, therefore undemocratic. They passed the article 50 invocation bill, so therefore invocation of article 50 is undemocratic.

Right?

The house of Lords hasn't passed article 50 yet. Unless I am mistaken.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Old argument that has been torn to pieces. We know what we voted for, Remain or leave.

You haven't torn a thing. The vote was made on a complete lie. Sadly people were stupid enough to buy it.

 

[thehistorymakers]

You haven't torn a thing. The vote was made on a complete lie. Sadly people were stupid enough to buy it.

Better stopping having democratic elections then. If you don't think the people are able to make mature decisions and know what to believe.
Did the remain camp lie?
We're you all clever enough not to believe the remain lies?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Yes. Neither campaign was Snow White. However, leave put out absolute fucking whoppers.

 

[Papper]

Yes and I said that EU commisioners aren't democratic and accountable. I showed you that the commisioner we send there swears allegiance to the EU and at no time must represent the country which sent him there. There is no accountability. That is what my gripe with the lack of democracy in the EU is.
As you know, this got very boring yesterday and I think we agreed to move on. Haha

The process was/is wholly undemocratic.

The treaty, Mr Corbyn said, "takes away from national parliaments the power to set economic policy and hands it over to an unelected set of bankers who will impose the economic policies of price stability, deflation and high unemployment throughout the European Community".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35743994

Here's another unelected reject.

Taking the EU representative to task, a Finnish citizen demanded to know why Jyrki Katainen had been allowed to become the country's commissioner after he resigned as prime minister for “failing” in the leading role.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/731030/EU-Commission-legitimacy-chief-unelected-representatives