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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

thehistorymakers said:
The EU commisioners oath.


solemnly undertake:

to respect the Treaties and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union in the fulfilment of all my duties;
to be completely independent in carrying out my responsibilities, in the general interest of the Union;
in the performance of my tasks, neither to seek nor to take instructions from any Government or from any other institution, body, office or entity;
to refrain from any action incompatible with my duties or the performance of my tasks.
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The Union or The United States of Europe is in theory quite a progressive idea yet for me hasn't really achieved much in terms of raising the living standards of Europeans. Europe is an Economic disaster and it isn't actually that good at protecting the human rights of some Europeans. Make no mistake it is a Corporate Tool, an efficient centralised tool of power that does away with the middle man - essentially us.

As for Commissioners.

Mandelson (of Labour safe seat Hartlepool) had to resign twice from the Labour cabinet and yet pops up as a EU Commissioner. Then you got the one time Euro-Sceptic and political failure Lord Kinnock who strangely enough desired the abolishment of the House of Lords yet appeared to do very nicely all the same. Then you've got Corporate lobbyist Lord Hill who had never been elected as an MP and came from the unelected House of Lords.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/107438/Lord-Lady-Kinnock-s-10m-Euro-gravy-train
 
Papper said:
The Union or The United States of Europe is in theory quite a progressive idea yet for me hasn't really achieved much in terms of raising the living standards of Europeans. Europe is an Economic disaster and it isn't actually that good at protecting the human rights of some Europeans. Make no mistake it is a Corporate Tool, an efficient centralised tool of power that does away with the middle man - essentially us.

As for Commissioners.

Mandelson (of Labour safe seat Hartlepool) had to resign twice from the Labour cabinet and yet pops up as a EU Commissioner. Then you got the one time Euro-Sceptic and political failure Lord Kinnock who strangely enough desired the abolishment of the House of Lords yet appeared to do very nicely all the same. Then you've got Corporate lobbyist Lord Hill who had never been elected as an MP and came from the unelected House of Lords.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/107438/Lord-Lady-Kinnock-s-10m-Euro-gravy-train
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Tony Blair must be after Junkers job.
 
thehistorymakers said:
Sorry but no it isn't. There is no relevance at all.
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Course it is. On one occasion the government chose to over-rule the will of the people that was established through the democratic process.
It is evidence that advisory referendums are not legally binding.
It is EXACTLY the same.
 
Time for a General Election and time to build a new relationship within Europe. The population must have a say on this new relationship.
 
People can play the man rather than the ball all they like regarding Blair's speech. Oddly enough there hasn't been much of a comprehensive breakdown of what was wrong with the content.

And yeah, it doesn't sit that easy with me to back a man who led us into a totally needless war which led to so many deaths. But then there are two things at play here:

1) I fully agree with him on this one single issue and for all the questionable bits of his legacy, he also has the minimum wage (opposed by the Tories, lest we forget), Sure Start, Northern Ireland and Scottish/Welsh devolution on his CV - all some of the most popular bits of legislation in the last 30+ years. All on his watch. Pretty much any other Government we've had - absolutely fuck all to shout about.

2) If Leave voters can align themselves with Aaron Banks, Nigel Farage, Paul Dacre, Theresa May, Iain Duncan Smith, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Rupert Murdoch and Paul Nuttall, then I'm pretty fucking sure I can align myself with Tony Blair.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
People can play the man rather than the ball all they like regarding Blair's speech. Oddly enough there hasn't been much of a comprehensive breakdown of what was wrong with the content.

And yeah, it doesn't sit that easy with me to back a man who led us into a totally needless war which led to so many deaths. But then there are two things at play here:

1) I fully agree with him on this one single issue and for all the questionable bits of his legacy, he also has the minimum wage (opposed by the Tories, lest we forget), Sure Start, Northern Ireland and Scottish/Welsh devolution on his CV - all some of the most popular bits of legislation in the last 30+ years. All on his watch. Pretty much any other Government we've had - absolutely $#@! all to shout about.

2) If Leave voters can align themselves with Aaron Banks, Nigel Farage, Paul Dacre, Theresa May, Iain Duncan Smith, Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Rupert Murdoch and Paul Nuttall, then I'm pretty $#@!ing sure I can align myself with Tony Blair.
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The world is still paying the price for his crusade.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2003/mar/18/foreignpolicy.iraq1
 
I'm not excusing of that. Appalling decision. It's destroyed his legacy completely. He's been an irrelevance for a decade as a result. He wouldn't have any realistic chance of a political comeback, even if he formed his own party. It's Labour's most successful period of the last 40-50 years and yet because of him they more or less disown it now.

But all that said, I agree with what he has to say here on this matter. As I say, play the ball, not the man. Shameful really that it's him that has to say it rather than our actual Opposition who are busy navel-gazing.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
I'm not excusing of that. Appalling decision. It's destroyed his legacy completely. He's been an irrelevance for a decade as a result. He wouldn't have any realistic chance of a political comeback, even if he formed his own party. It's Labour's most successful period of the last 40-50 years and yet because of him they more or less disown it now.

But all that said, I agree with what he has to say here on this matter. As I say, play the ball, not the man. Shameful really that it's him that has to say it rather than our actual Opposition who are busy navel-gazing.
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Maybe the opposition respect the democratic result.
 
lemonjelly said:
Course it is. On one occasion the government chose to over-rule the will of the people that was established through the democratic process.
It is evidence that advisory referendums are not legally binding.
It is EXACTLY the same.
Click to expand...

Yes but it isn't advisory any more. It has been approved by a massive majority of members of Parliament.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
I'm not excusing of that. Appalling decision. It's destroyed his legacy completely. He's been an irrelevance for a decade as a result. He wouldn't have any realistic chance of a political comeback, even if he formed his own party. It's Labour's most successful period of the last 40-50 years and yet because of him they more or less disown it now.

But all that said, I agree with what he has to say here on this matter. As I say, play the ball, not the man. Shameful really that it's him that has to say it rather than our actual Opposition who are busy navel-gazing.
Click to expand...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1564312/Labours-promises-on-an-EU-referendum.html
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
I'm not excusing of that. Appalling decision. It's destroyed his legacy completely. He's been an irrelevance for a decade as a result. He wouldn't have any realistic chance of a political comeback, even if he formed his own party. It's Labour's most successful period of the last 40-50 years and yet because of him they more or less disown it now.

But all that said, I agree with what he has to say here on this matter. As I say, play the ball, not the man. Shameful really that it's him that has to say it rather than our actual Opposition who are busy navel-gazing.
Click to expand...


He's not saying anything new though - you break it down and all he's saying is " you are wrong and I'm right ! " which doesn't really help at all when you consider the EU as a progressive social movement or a foundation for economic prosperity is now an abject failure. Nobody can convince me it's anything but a Corporate tool and him waving his cock about and saying " I'm here ! " is at best quite amusing. There is much unknown but you can say that about domestic politics and life in general but I would rather a UK Party set out its stall and let me have a direct vote rather than it all indirectly filter through from Brussels. If anything it's a chance for a new breed of politician to emerge, but somebody who puts us first rather than the Corporations. Centralisation has not actually benefited anybody.
 
If Blair really wants to make a difference he would be better off working in the back room supporting other people to raise these issues. He is seen as toxic by so many people the messenger gets shot before he's even delivered his message.
 
thehistorymakers said:
It was a serious question.


I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Reality Check: Four claims in Tony Blair's speech - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-39007019
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Have you read this? It says that what he said was correct on two of the points, slightly exaggerated but the principle of his point was correct on the third and the fourth was a slight misquote.

Reality check is a piece on the BBC website they use to analyse claims made about Brexit, not to say that they are incorrect.
 
Wilf Wolf said:
If Blair really wants to make a difference he would be better off working in the back room supporting other people to raise these issues. He is seen as toxic by so many people the messenger gets shot before he's even delivered his message.
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I'm sure Open Britain are well aware of how toxic Tony Blair is but will have an ongoing strategy with that in mind. Much of what he said yesterday I find myself in full agreement. He does have the ability to get the message out there.
 
Tony Towner said:
Have you read this? It says that what he said was correct on two of the points, slightly exaggerated but the principle of his point was correct on the third and the fourth was a slight misquote.

Reality check is a piece on the BBC website they use to analyse claims made about Brexit, not to say that they are incorrect.
Click to expand...

I don't agree at all. Reading that he was obviously doing what he always has done, manipulates and exaggerates. The bloke has no integrity at all.
 
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