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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Visage said:
Thats not an answer. You can have one more go, or take a holiday.
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I have asked you loads of questions you haven't answered. Stop using your power as moderator for your personal vendetta. It is sickening and an abuse of power.

The answer to the question, no we shouldn't. Maybe in the distant future, but you can't go in to big negotiations, with the oppostion (EU) playing hard, in the hope they can change the vote of the British people. A crazy idea. You go in to the talks and fight for the best interest of the UK. How many years did we have to wait for a referendum to leave the EU?
 
So public opinion was sacrosanct on referendum day, but irrelevant afterwards?
 
Visage said:
So public opinion was sacrosanct on referendum day, but irrelevant afterwards?
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We have voted to leave, we haven't left yet. You are trying to overturn a democratic result, because you didn't like the outcome. In 30 years if the EU reforms, maybe people will want to join it, instead of leaving it.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
I want the UK to get the best deal we can. It would be perverse to want anything else. However - if we behave in an antagonistic, intransigent fashion as we have done, then we'll get a $#@! deal. We also don't have anything like the required people to pull it all off. It's not realistic, I want Wolves to win every single game for the rest of the season but it's not going to happen.
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Yes but what is happening here, it is like Wolves supportes saying they support Wolves, but wearing Chelsea scarves under their coats. The EU will play hard, so will we. In the end there will be a compromise, there is too much money to be lost by both sides.
 
I'd say it's more like us sending Dean Saunders out to manage against Gary Megson, Nigel Pearson and Tony Mowbray. You can point out the massive flaws in all of the other three, you might say we'd never want them here, but they're all quite clearly more adept than our guy who is an absolute melon and hence they'll win every time.

We don't have a civil service capable of dealing with Brexit, we don't have trade negotiators and we don't have capable politicians at the heart of the process.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
I'd say it's more like us sending Dean Saunders out to manage against Gary Megson, Nigel Pearson and Tony Mowbray. You can point out the massive flaws in all of the other three, you might say we'd never want them here, but they're all quite clearly more adept than our guy who is an absolute melon and hence they'll win every time.

We don't have a civil service capable of dealing with Brexit, we don't have trade negotiators and we don't have capable politicians at the heart of the process.
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We won't know that till after. I want the best people in place, to get the best deal.
 
I want to shit gold nuggets, but that ain't gonna happen.
 
thehistorymakers said:
We have voted to leave, we haven't left yet. You are trying to overturn a democratic result, because you didn't like the outcome. In 30 years if the EU reforms, maybe people will want to join it, instead of leaving it.
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If democratic results were set in stone we would just have a single election and then keep that government forever.

You seem obsessed at enforcing the will of the people, but equally obsessed that the people aren't allowed to change their mind.
 
Meanwhile, Boris has suggested that Blair is insulting the intelligence of the electorate.

Yes. This Boris:

search
 
thehistorymakers said:
I don't like that they swear allegiance to the EU and be independent from any country. That means, once a commisioner has been chosen from a given country, he no longer acts in the interests of the the country which sent him there
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You surely don't believe that? A politician from a particular nationality loses all sense of their nationality / upbringing / country's best interests because they become employed as an EU commissioner. I'm sorry but you are now sounding like a weird conspiracy theorist.
 
thehistorymakers said:
You didn't answer the question, how many years did we have to wait for a vote to leave the EU?
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"We" didn't get a vote to leave the EU because of some massive public groundswell demanding it. "We" got it because of Cameron's cack handed attempts to kill the issue within his party once and for all and to cut UKIP off at the knees. It's only in the last few years immigration has become more than a blip on any opinion poll of what the British electorate see as important
 
thehistorymakers said:
It was condescending, patronising and shows his lack of respect for democracy. It might give a few leavers hope, who have yet to accept the result, but it makes leave voters more determined than ever, when you have to listen to this man and what he represents.
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His speech demonstrates a much deeper understanding of democracy than yours. Regardless of his decisions over Iraq, it has absolutely no bearing on his opinions on the EU. By throwing up "war crimes" you are denouncing him not his views on the EU. That is not democracy, imagine if your views were discounted because of something you did that was completely unrelated to the topic in hand...you would surely consider that undemocratic??

There are millions of people who disagree with you and you just want them to be ignored and wave the word democracy around as it if means everything else is not democracy.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
His speech demonstrates a much deeper understanding of democracy than yours. Regardless of his decisions over Iraq, it has absolutely no bearing on his opinions on the EU. By throwing up "war crimes" you are denouncing him not his views on the EU. That is not democracy, imagine if your views were discounted because of something you did that was completely unrelated to the topic in hand...you would surely consider that undemocratic??

There are millions of people who disagree with you and you just want them to be ignored and wave the word democracy around as it if means everything else is not democracy.
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You are correct in everything you say, but Blair - who I voted for twice, has become toxic, what he says now won't ever get the traction it deserves irrespective of what it is because of the legacy which is Iraq. I could never feel sorry for him, but it is a shame his years as PM will always be defined by this.
 
thehistorymakers said:
We have voted to leave, we haven't left yet. You are trying to overturn a democratic result, because you didn't like the outcome. In 30 years if the EU reforms, maybe people will want to join it, instead of leaving it.
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Overturning the outcome of the referendum has not been something that has been raised on here, perhaps with the exception of Paddy, nobody is actively trying to overturn anything...this is just another of your fall back statements that don't actually mean anything.

Why can't you just accept that there are millions of people who have no appetite for what is being done in their name and they are powerless to do anything about it while this government continues with their current approach.

This government does not have a mandate to exit the EU, let alone in the way they are proposing. Leaving the EU wasn't in their manifesto in 2015, the government's position was to remain and they campaigned on that. The only things that is pushing us towards an exit is an advisory referendum and in a healthy democracy all opinions should be represented in parliament and without and not be silenced by rubbish "will of the people" arguments.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
His speech demonstrates a much deeper understanding of democracy than yours. Regardless of his decisions over Iraq, it has absolutely no bearing on his opinions on the EU. By throwing up "war crimes" you are denouncing him not his views on the EU. That is not democracy, imagine if your views were discounted because of something you did that was completely unrelated to the topic in hand...you would surely consider that undemocratic??

There are millions of people who disagree with you and you just want them to be ignored and wave the word democracy around as it if means everything else is not democracy.
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So a vote to give a referendum is passed by a majority of 6 to 1, we voted to leave the EU parliament voted by a massive majority to accept the people's choice to leave and release article 50 to begin negotiations to leave the EU and you think he is concerned about democracy.

He thinks he knows best and we didn't know what we voted for. That is condescending and patronising. He does more harm to uniting the country and makes the leave vote more determined than ever to see this through.
Oh, there are millions of people who disagree with you. One day you say accept the result, the next you prove that you don't.
 
thehistorymakers said:
It was condescending, patronising and shows his lack of respect for democracy. It might give a few leavers hope, who have yet to accept the result, but it makes leave voters more determined than ever, when you have to listen to this man and what he represents.
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100% with you on this one THM. Whenever the idiot warmonger Blair opens his mouth, the Leave camp just increases in size anyway so maybe we should keep giving him a platform.
 
thehistorymakers said:
So a vote to give a referendum is passed by a majority of 6 to 1, we voted to leave the EU parliament voted by a massive majority to accept the people's choice to leave and release article 50 to begin negotiations to leave the EU and you think he is concerned about democracy.

He thinks he knows best and we didn't know what we voted for. That is condescending and patronising. He does more harm to uniting the country and makes the leave vote more determined than ever to see this through.
Oh, there are millions of people who disagree with you. One day you say accept the result, the next you prove that you don't.
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So anyone who doesn't agree with you is condescending and patronising? How condescending and patronising is that?

You have no idea whether I accept the result or not - you make those claims based on your own interpretations of what I post. Those interpretations are based on your own assumptions, not mine. Those interpretations are based on a static idea of democracy that seems to have started and finished on 23rd June 2016.

Do me a favour and keep your ideas about what I think to yourself because it's bad enough having to read what you write without having to imagine that you have been in my head.
 
Tony Towner said:
You surely don't believe that? A politician from a particular nationality loses all sense of their nationality / upbringing / country's best interests because they become employed as an EU commissioner. I'm sorry but you are now sounding like a weird conspiracy theorist.
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It is in the commisioners oath. To serve the EU at all times and no individual country.
 
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