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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

thehistorymakers said:
You didn't understand what I was saying, because we have no controls over are EU borders, we have had no control of how many people were coming in,

We do have control over EU borders. We are not party to the Schengen Agreement. Nobody can cross UK borders without having their passport or identity checked. You referred specifically to the UK's own decision to waive any transitional arrangements when the EU expanded. The EU did not require us to do that, it was a decision made domestically. We also have absolute control on the numbers of people who come from outside the EU so it is wrong and disingenuous to say we have no control and open borders.

because of that, we don't have enough houses, ( which affects the poorest through higher rents etc). Less bargaining power for low paid workers( because there are many people who will work more hours, no overtime rates etc). Many more people using the health service, not enough Doctors and nurses to keep up, also underinvestment, which the goverment should take responsibility for.

We don't have enough houses because we haven't built enough. The UK government (remember, the people you want to give control to) made decisions on issues such as immigration levels but then didn't invest in the infrastructure. Not the fault of the EU. In your earlier post, you referred to all the working class being poorer as a result. That is wrong, it isn't even a matter of opinion, it is just wrong.

You can't really expect to convince anyone, with the bit about UK workers having a small minority that are poorer, according to statistics, there are over 4 million UK people in work, living below the poverty line. You being a socialist, should not that too well. Pretending it isn't happening is a slap in the face to the very people you profess to support.

I haven't pretended it hasn't happened, I am disputing that our membership of the EU is the reason. I am going to ask you once again to not even try to understand what or how I think when it is clear you don't even understand how your own opinions are formed.

Tony Blair is one of the main people who are guilty in $#@!ting on the backs of British workers. Him sucking up to the multinationals, who of course want uncontrolled immigration, and not putting a cap on new member states from the old Eastern block countries, has contributed to that we are leaving the EU.

Tony Blair was the democratically elected head of our sovereign government. The sort of person you voted to hand back control to. Don't you see the problem here?
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xx
 
Blair never lost an election. Doubt he'd have lost in 2010 either.
 
Member states nominate commissioners which normally means that they are from the same party that has been democratically elected in that particular nation.

To rail against that is like moaning that Margaret Thatcher made Norman Tebbit a minister or put Keith Joseph in charge of education.
 
thehistorymakers said:
Tony Blair was democratically elected, he $#@!ed up and we got rid of him. You can't get rid of the EU commisioners when you are in the EU, because the EU is not democratic. Do you see the difference?
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So? The difference is completely irrelevant to all the points you were making. Tony Blair, and leaders of other democratically elected UK governments are responsible for everything you are saying is a result of the EU. Whilst I understand your argument that the UK should have sovereignty returned from the EU, all the reasons you believe that are at the best flawed but generally just wrong.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Member states nominate commissioners which normally means that they are from the same party that has been democratically elected in that particular nation.

To rail against that is like moaning that Margaret Thatcher made Norman Tebbit a minister or put Keith Joseph in charge of education.
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No it isn't. I can vote against a party, if they don't keep their promises. I have no say with EU commisioners. When they do things I don't like, I couldn't do anything.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
So? The difference is completely irrelevant to all the points you were making. Tony Blair, and leaders of other democratically elected UK governments are responsible for everything you are saying is a result of the EU. Whilst I understand your argument that the UK should have sovereignty returned from the EU, all the reasons you believe that are at the best flawed but generally just wrong.
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Opiniones.
 
thehistorymakers said:
No it isn't. I can vote against a party, if they don't keep their promises. I have no say with EU commisioners. When they do things I don't like, I couldn't do anything.
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I am sorry but that is nonsensical.

If you vote for a party and it puts a commissioner in, it is EXACTLY the same as that party choosing a minister
 
This has been pointed out many many times to THM. Its getting tiresome.
 
WE NEED TO TAKE BACK CONTROL SO WE'RE NOT AT THE MERCY OF TONY BLAIR, WHO WAS ELECTED AS PM THREE TIMES BY THE BRITISH PEOPLE.
 
thehistorymakers said:
Tony Blair was democratically elected, he fucked up and we got rid of him. You can't get rid of the EU commisioners when you are in the EU, because the EU is not democratic. Do you see the difference?
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We didn't get rid of him.
 
Well, it is getting pretty bloody dull.

How hard is it to understand that the elected governments of the sovereign states get to pick their own EU Commissioner? So when Blair was in power we had a different commissioner to when Thatcher or Cameron was in power.
 
Visage said:
WE NEED TO TAKE BACK CONTROL SO WE'RE NOT AT THE MERCY OF TONY BLAIR, WHO WAS ELECTED AS PM THREE TIMES BY THE BRITISH PEOPLE.
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Of course you know I didn't say that, but feel free to make it up. Do you realise you are ruining the thread again?
 
MARKakaJIM said:
What have they done that you don't like?
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I'd be interested to know this too. And which EU commisioner you'd rather have in place that would have avoided such incidents?
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Well, it is getting pretty bloody dull.

How hard is it to understand that the elected governments of the sovereign states get to pick their own EU Commissioner? So when Blair was in power we had a different commissioner to when Thatcher or Cameron was in power.
Click to expand...

EU commisioners make decisions behind closed doors. They are not democratic and I have no vote to get rid of them. If the Prime Minister chose a minister who doesn't do his job properly, I can vote against that Prime minister and his party. I can't do that with an EU commisioner. They are not accountable.
 
machin05 said:
I'd be interested to know this too. And which EU commisioner you'd rather have in place that would have avoided such incidents?
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I suppose Farage might have been in with a shout, but given that he attended 1 out of 42 EU Fisheries Committee meetings over three years when he was a member that probably counts against him. As well as being a talentless blowhard.
 
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