REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Deutsch Wolf]

Not talking about immigration here. On about the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of items we import every single week.

 

[Sniffer]

Not talking about immigration here. On about the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of items we import every single week.

But it will be worthwhile due to all of the unnecessary eu red tape that will be cut?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Good point, solid British red tape will be much better.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Not talking about immigration here. On about the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of items we import every single week.

It really isn't difficult to import from China or the US.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

It really isn't difficult to import from China or the US.

Actually its a doddle

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It really isn't difficult to import from China or the US.

Maybe not right now. How about when every single item we import from anywhere in the world is subject to additional checks and possible tariffs because we have no free trade agreement with anyone in the world?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Just the small matter of that nasty import duty.

Which we don't have with EU markets. Great. It is a doddle. But a load of shit just got stupidly expensive to the tune of 20 per cent. and that won't creation inflation. No. Not at all.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Maybe not right now. How about when every single item we import from anywhere in the world is subject to additional checks and possible tariffs because we have no free trade agreement with anyone in the world?

I think you're over complicating the import process. I'm sure the forward companies check new customers, but after that their items will sale through.

There may be an issue with tariffs, but from my experience they're not a huge cost anyway.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

They are 20 per cent.

 

[Tony Towner]

I think Chinese or American tariffs will stay static at worst, unfortunately we have already increased their cost by 15%ish anyway.

 

[Penk Wolf]

They are 20 per cent.

What are?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I think Chinese or American tariffs will stay static at worst, unfortunately we have already increased their cost by 15%ish anyway.

I don't doubt you. But we need to sort a formal, ratified deal out first and it isn't happening inside two years, so what then?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Hello Deutsch, thank you for your very lengthy, detailed reply to my previous post. When I read through it along with others, after asking for your views on the article it really complicates the argument further for me. I don't regret voting to Leave, I just mean that for some of the very good reasons to leave, you would have what I would see as a very good reason to remain. Hopefully at some point I will reply to some of the points you made - I should be careful what I wish for on this thread as you gave it back with both barrels :icon_biggrin:
But like you, I do worry that the bunch of Prats in charge haven't got a clue how to negotiate a good Brexit deal having never had a proper job their whole lives. Why haven't they got any experienced Business people involved ? Yes, because they are a bunch of Prats.
It reminds me of a Cabinet reshuffle. "Right, Mr or Mrs Foreign Secretary, you know fu*k all about Foreign Policy, so now we are going to put you in charge of Defence, as you know fu*k all about that aswell, and after that you can have a go at being Chancellor if you like".


As for HS2, what a pile of crap, wasting money so a few suits can get to London a little bit quicker. Complete madness and you can see why the theory conspirators are having a field day with it. I think I'm one of them !

Missed this originally. Please don't take it to heart! I don't hold back with anyone

Robust debate is good, we don't all have to agree.

 

[ProgWolf]

Missed this originally. Please don't take it to heart! I don't hold back with anyone

Robust debate is good, we don't all have to agree.

Not at all, I meant it in a good way.

What I would say to people who voted remain is there are plenty of comments on here describing all of the potential problems of leaving and potential negotiations, especially if it's looking like a crap Brexit. But given that we are leaving the EU, what are your "solutions" to the problems you foresee ?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Pretty sure the EU will have it that we treat all EU members exactly the same. There won't be any preferential treatment I wouldn't imagine.

Also, what do you mean by "less-desirable" countries? Who exactly are they?

It wasn't something I was suggesting or condoning, just wondering if it was something we'd perhaps seen tried on to sway favour of the more powerful EU members.

The 'less desirable' comment was stuck in quotation marks to try and highlight it wouldn't be my description but most complainants whinging amount unlimited immigration seem to have a bee in their bonnet with those that come over here to fill unskilled jobs, largely from former Eastern Bloc countries whereas they don't seem to mind the idea of a skilled/trained German or Frenchman coming in to help plug a skills shortage to the same degree, so I suppose those would be the 'less desirable' countries in their eyes.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Just for starters:

1) Restore numbers in the civil service to pre-2010 levels so we at least have a fighting chance of sorting out this gargantuan bureaucratic task

2) End this silly game of using Fox, Davis and Boris at the forefront of the exit strategy, if there was a point to be made then it has long since been made. Use competent people not these clowns

3) Guarantee the rights of EU citizens currently residing in Britain, you do not play political football with people's lives

4) Retract the threat of us reverting to WTO rules if we can't come up with a deal, that is not an acceptable strategy in any way. You will come up with a deal because that's your job

5) Start respecting Parliament, keep people properly updated and stop playing more silly games. You aren't world class negotiators, you need all the help and all the checks and balances you can get because left to your own devices you will cock it right up

6) Stop ignoring the wishes of the 16,000,000 people who voted to Remain. You cannot pretend that they no longer have a voice. If that means annoying UKIP and potentially losing votes to them - although they're doing a good job of ruining their own prospects as it stands - then so be it. There is no mandate for what you're doing so stop pretending there is

7) Give us some meaningful strategies on trade, movement and diplomacy, we can't be left guessing until 2019 and then be told "this is the deal, like it or lump it"

8 ) When valid issues are raised - pick any of the multitude out there, let's say what our final exit payment will be for now - address it in a mature fashion rather than obfuscating or pretending there isn't an issue. That's pathetic politics

9) Accept that economic concerns should override immigration concerns in the real world

10) Denounce Trump, Erdogan and any other loon out there rather than cosying up to them

11) Be more conciliatory towards the EU - behaving like a pack of dickheads will get us absolutely nowhere

12) Row back from austerity domestically because we seriously cannot afford to suffer further pain with that discredited nonsense while all this is going on, it's a potential disaster to combine the two

They're 0 out of 12 so far, let's see how many they manage over the next few months. Wouldn't surprise me if it stayed at 0.

 

[Trips]

It wasn't something I was suggesting or condoning, just wondering if it was something we'd perhaps seen tried on to sway favour of the more powerful EU members.

The 'less desirable' comment was stuck in quotation marks to try and highlight it wouldn't be my description but most complainants whinging amount unlimited immigration seem to have a bee in their bonnet with those that come over here to fill unskilled jobs, largely from former Eastern Bloc countries whereas they don't seem to mind the idea of a skilled/trained German or Frenchman coming in to help plug a skills shortage to the same degree, so I suppose those would be the 'less desirable' countries in their eyes.

My mistake. Apologies.

Also, that is a great wish list Deutsch. Some of them I wouldn't even give them months on, they should have solved them already - and by the time we trigger Article 50 at the very latest.

 

[ProgWolf]

Just for starters:

Thank you. It's the first time I have seen a list of potential solutions, so thanks for that. For what it's worth I have put my two 'penneth in...

1) Restore numbers in the civil service to pre-2010 levels so we at least have a fighting chance of sorting out this gargantuan bureaucratic task

Agree with that one

2) End this silly game of using Fox, Davis and Boris at the forefront of the exit strategy, if there was a point to be made then it has long since been made. Use competent people not these clowns

My main concern about the whole deal is that there are no MP's competent enough to secure a good Brexit deal

3) Guarantee the rights of EU citizens currently residing in Britain, you do not play political football with people's lives

Apart from those who have never worked since they arrived here, if they have been here for six months or more ?

4) Retract the threat of us reverting to WTO rules if we can't come up with a deal, that is not an acceptable strategy in any way. You will come up with a deal because that's your job

Maybe keeping the threat in place is their idea of a bargaining tool to gain a favourable Brexit negotiation ?

5) Start respecting Parliament, keep people properly updated and stop playing more silly games. You aren't world class negotiators, you need all the help and all the checks and balances you can get because left to your own devices you will cock it right up

Can't argue with that one, apart from the bit about respecting Parliament, as respect for our MP's is completely shot

6) Stop ignoring the wishes of the 16,000,000 people who voted to Remain. You cannot pretend that they no longer have a voice. If that means annoying UKIP and potentially losing votes to them - although they're doing a good job of ruining their own prospects as it stands - then so be it. There is no mandate for what you're doing so stop pretending there is

How do you define a mandate ? Some would say they must carry out the wishes of the 17.4M majority of voters ?
Yes, they shouldn't ignore those who voted to Remain but we must come out of the Single Market and put an end to Freedom of Movement You cannot have one without the other

7) Give us some meaningful strategies on trade, movement and diplomacy, we can't be left guessing until 2019 and then be told "this is the deal, like it or lump it"

Hard to imagine them knowing what a strategy looks like.

8 ) When valid issues are raised - pick any of the multitude out there, let's say what our final exit payment will be for now - address it in a mature fashion rather than obfuscating or pretending there isn't an issue. That's pathetic politics

We must negotiate this to make sure we pay as little as possible. We have paid enough into their corrupt pot ?

9) Accept that economic concerns should override immigration concerns in the real world

Not sure that many of the Leave or Remain voters would agree with this given that Immigration is still a major concern and well over 60% of people still feel that way. Links to Polls available if required

10) Denounce Trump, Erdogan and any other loon out there rather than cosying up to them

Not sure how denouncing Trump would help us to secure a favourable trade deal with the USA ? Whatever we think of him or the USA electoral system, he was democratically elected, but rather than cosying up to him, we have to think more about the prosperity of the UK, not about him. Next to Erdogan, Trump is very respectable.

11) Be more conciliatory towards the EU - behaving like a pack of dickheads will get us absolutely nowhere

Perhaps we should take the lead here but the language of Merkel and Hollande does not help. Surely a smooth Brexit is in their interests as well as ours ?

12) Row back from austerity domestically because we seriously cannot afford to suffer further pain with that discredited nonsense while all this is going on, it's a potential disaster to combine the two

Can't disagree with that. Tax the Rich please, and increase Corporation Tax on the big corporations who turnover in excess of 'X' amount o Billions. More Tax on anyone with more than one property and big fines for slum landlords ripping off their tenants or only offering rooms to the unemployed which exploits them, the system and the taxpayer. They can cope with more Austerity than the rest of us. Also, do more to punish tax avoiders

They're 0 out of 12 so far, let's see how many they manage over the next few months. Wouldn't surprise me if it stayed at 0.

Don't hold your breath Deutsch Wolf, even on the ones I agree with !

a

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Surely the best way to avoid the problems associated with leaving the EU would be to not leave the EU.

Our economy hasn't recovered from 2008, I can't think of a worse time in our recent history to make such a significant decision and I can't think of a worse group of politicians to make a good job of it. Parliament is pretty dysfunctional at the moment. A government with a small majority that relies on quelling rebellion on its back benches, the main opposition in a never ending internal squabble and the third largest party representing only the interests of one country.

If someone put the question "what would be the ideal circumstances for the UK to leave the EU?" This would not be a the answer put forward.

 

[Donegal Wolf]

Everyone can go and work for Border Control given we'll need thousands more staff there. That's the masterplan.

Tough luck if you get assigned to a seaport rather than an airport though as there'll be ridiculous queues in and out every single day as every single import and export takes an inordinate time to process.

Still, control eh? Wonderful thing. Don't know how I ever did without it.

Yep there is 300,000 Border crossings per week between Northern and Southern Ireland, that going to need a significant amount of manpower to police that alone.