REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[thehistorymakers]

All EU member states will bear some brunt through their contributions, obviously your net contributors will take a bigger hit as they're paying more into the EU pot. Which brings me back to an earlier point, is your main driver for wanting the UK out of the EU because you don't want other people wasting 'our' money? Are you willing to cut off the support we provide to millions of people because a few corrupt politicians, with no direct involvement in the EU, are abusing the genorosity?

If so that sounds like a very selfish attitude, and that's saying something coming from someone who is generally uncharitable like myself.

Mark, the point is, the people don't see the money. Over 60% youth unemployment. The youngsters having to leave their families to find work in other countries. I go down my high street now, half the shops have closed, kids have to get hand outs from their parents pensions to survive.
I want out of the EU for many reasons, but wastefulness and feeding corrupt governments is a big factor.

I don't agree with the Pan European plan. I love culture and identity.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I love culture too.

But AGAIN you are talking about Spanish issues to try and win a British argument. It is nonsensical.

 

[Trips]

But even if that's true, is it really much of a hardship if you really want to live and work in the EU ? Some have said we might need a Visa if we fancy a fortnight in Spain ? Again, I don't really see a problem with that ?

Take going to live and work in the EU now, and how easy that is and compare it to going to work and live in Australia for example. If a system like that is brought in it could take months to move. So you will need to find a job, interview and get offered the job and then spend months sorting everything out. Why would employers in EU countries offer jobs to British people when they get someone else from inside the EU who can move tomorrow? There is one problem.

Also, opportunities for younger people who may want to study or work in other countries in the EU will now find it more difficult also. I spent 12 months working in France when I was younger, and it was an amazing experience living in another country and experiencing their culture and way of life. I would love for my kids to be able to do something similar but that is going to be much more difficult for them now.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I guess you don't have that much familiarity with getting Visas Prog? It can be a right pain in the backside, particularly if the country you want to travel to has beef with the UK (for example Spain..)

Spain's biggest industry is tourism, more precisely British tourism. Spain will not dare do anything that jeopardises that.
The EU have already said they are very worried that certain countries from the EU will do secret deals with the UK and split the EU bargaing power.

 

[Trips]

Spain's biggest industry is tourism, more precisely British tourism. Spain will not dare do anything that jeopardises that.
The EU have already said they are very worried that certain countries from the EU will do secret deals with the UK and split the EU bargaing power.

When have they said this?

 

[ProgWolf]

Hey look, we can waste our money without the EU meddling. Have a look at HS2 or that poxy fucking garden bridge.

Hello Deutsch, thank you for your very lengthy, detailed reply to my previous post. When I read through it along with others, after asking for your views on the article it really complicates the argument further for me. I don't regret voting to Leave, I just mean that for some of the very good reasons to leave, you would have what I would see as a very good reason to remain. Hopefully at some point I will reply to some of the points you made - I should be careful what I wish for on this thread as you gave it back with both barrels :icon_biggrin:
But like you, I do worry that the bunch of Prats in charge haven't got a clue how to negotiate a good Brexit deal having never had a proper job their whole lives. Why haven't they got any experienced Business people involved ? Yes, because they are a bunch of Prats.
It reminds me of a Cabinet reshuffle. "Right, Mr or Mrs Foreign Secretary, you know fu*k all about Foreign Policy, so now we are going to put you in charge of Defence, as you know fu*k all about that aswell, and after that you can have a go at being Chancellor if you like".


As for HS2, what a pile of crap, wasting money so a few suits can get to London a little bit quicker. Complete madness and you can see why the theory conspirators are having a field day with it. I think I'm one of them !

 

[Tredman]

Spain's biggest industry is tourism, more precisely British tourism. Spain will not dare do anything that jeopardises that.
The EU have already said they are very worried that certain countries from the EU will do secret deals with the UK and split the EU bargaing power.

Tourism visas perhaps, but business visas can be blocked and are more important to our (UK) economy.

 

[ProgWolf]

I guess you don't have that much familiarity with getting Visas Prog? It can be a right pain in the backside, particularly if the country you want to travel to has beef with the UK (for example Spain..)

You're right, I've never had to apply for a Visa. You would think in the grown up world of travel and work and moving, they could come with a way to simplify it all, just because a country Leaves the EU. I know some will say that's the whole point of being a Member of the EU but it feels like things are changing and maybe if another country votes to leave, countries like Spain will have to re-assess these sort of things ? Or am I being a bit naive again ?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Mark, the point is, the people don't see the money. Over 60% youth unemployment. The youngsters having to leave their families to find work in other countries. I go down my high street now, half the shops have closed, kids have to get hand outs from their parents pensions to survive.
I want out of the EU for many reasons, but wastefulness and feeding corrupt governments is a big factor.

I don't agree with the Pan European plan. I love culture and identity.

So how does the UK not being in the EU improve that situation? You take money out of the EU so there's least money to potentially be wasted by corrupt national officials at the end of the line but how does that get any more money to the disadvantaged that you apparently want to stick up for? It's the national officials that you need to usurp, not the people funding them, do you vote for change in Spanish elections? (assuming you're entitled to) If a big net contributor like the UK pulls out of the EU then all you're doing is reducing the budget for everyone else, so if any struggling member state manages to overthrow their corrupt government in favour of someone more honest and fair to the disadvantaged they're still going to struggle as they've less money to play with.

I don't see how Brexit helps the EU situation at all, the only thing it does relative to all this corruption you speak of is protect British assets from being wasted, it does absolutely nothing to help or protect the people you say are being victimised and disadvantaged.

 

[ProgWolf]

So you want to make life worse for what exactly?

Well I went to Benidorm in 1980 and I didn't need a Visa then so why should I need one when we Leave the EU ?

As I just replied to Tred, why does it have to be so complicated, and if another country votes to leave, will that force the issue for countries to make things less complicated ?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Spain's biggest industry is tourism, more precisely British tourism. Spain will not dare do anything that jeopardises that.
The EU have already said they are very worried that certain countries from the EU will do secret deals with the UK and split the EU bargaing power.

I am sorry but that is complete shite. Worse than a £350m bus.

 

[Tredman]

You're right, I've never had to apply for a Visa. You would think in the grown up world of travel and work and moving, they could come with a way to simplify it all, just because a country Leaves the EU. I know some will say that's the whole point of being a Member of the EU but it feels like things are changing and maybe if another country votes to leave, countries like Spain will have to re-assess these sort of things ? Or am I being a bit naive again ?

Unfortunately it tends to be reciprocal - it's incredibly difficult to get a visa for the UK if you're not in the EU, so other countries make it equally difficult to get one for there - particularly for business visas.

I'd assume we will extend our lovely visa system to EU after brexit and they will reciprocate. I can see short term tourism visas being issued on entry, but a pain in the ass system introduced for business and work visas.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Well I went to Benidorm in 1980 and I didn't need a Visa then so why should I need one when we Leave the EU ?

As I just replied to Tred, why does it have to be so complicated, and if another country votes to leave, will that force the issue for countries to make things less complicated ?

Possibly because that is what taking back sovereignty and control of your borders will mean.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I am sorry but that is complete $#@!e. Worse than a £350m bus.

What is bullshit there?

 

[Johnny75]

Well I went to Benidorm in 1980 and I didn't need a Visa then so why should I need one when we Leave the EU ?

As I just replied to Tred, why does it have to be so complicated, and if another country votes to leave, will that force the issue for countries to make things less complicated ?

So explain to me please why have we made things worse? What possible benefit is there to adding more beaurocracy?

Why vote for something that makes life harder, what are the things we get in return. And I don't want 'control of the borders' nonsense but actual tangible stuff.

 

[thehistorymakers]

When have they said this?

Junker said this, in the last few weeks.


"I wish it will be like this, but will it happen? I have some doubt. Because the Brits will manage without big effort to divide the remaining 27 member states."

 

[thehistorymakers]

When have they said this?

Sorry took me time to find the link.

From the link below.

"The other EU 27 don't know it yet, but the Brits know very well how they can tackle this," Juncker told Deutschlandfunk radio. "They could promise country A this, country B that and country C something else and the end game is that there is not a united European front."

http://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN15Q0J2

 

[Trips]

The EU have already said they are very worried that certain countries from the EU will do secret deals with the UK and split the EU bargaing power.

So he didn't say this at all then. I've just read the news reports and his fear is that the UK could offer Country A this, and Country B that and this could lead to the break up of the EU.

Nothing in there that "certain countries WILL do secret deals"

 

[thehistorymakers]

So he didn't say this at all then. I've just read the news reports and his fear is that the UK could offer Country A this, and Country B that and this could lead to the break up of the EU.

Nothing in there that "certain countries WILL do secret deals"

"I wish it will be like this, but will it happen? I have some doubt. Because the Brits will manage without big effort to divide the remaining 27 member states."

Obviously he is only saying what he thinks, it doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Do you hope we do divide the EU countries and get the best trade deals for the UK?