REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Deutsch Wolf]

Maybe because most the Labour party wanted to remain in the EU, but accept the democratic result, which the remainers who voted against article 50, obviously don't.

Best pass any Bill the Government introduces then. They won the most recent election after all.

That isn't democracy no matter how much you think it is just because it suits what you want.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

The steel thing is a bit of a double edged sword though isn't it?

You might give British steel production a bit of a boost by making their competitors more expensive but there are going to be implications further down the line for subsequent customers, some companies might not be able to afford the new higher prices and go out of business, some manufacturers might have to increase their prices as a result and so lose custom to overseas competitors who still have access to cheaper Chinese steel.

Surely there are better ways to make your native alternatives more competitive than simply skewing the market in their favour?

 

[visage]

My thoughts entirely. If you artificially increase the cost of imported steel to boost domestic production then construction costs will go up - or get canned as they're no longer economical.

 

[Penk Wolf]

The steel thing is a bit of a double edged sword though isn't it?

You might give British steel production a bit of a boost by making their competitors more expensive but there are going to be implications further down the line for subsequent customers, some companies might not be able to afford the new higher prices and go out of business, some manufacturers might have to increase their prices as a result and so lose custom to overseas competitors who still have access to cheaper Chinese steel.

Surely there are better ways to make your native alternatives more competitive than simply skewing the market in their favour?

It's too late now, it has to be done at day one or not at all, however, for example, when/if Land Wind start selling their X7 in the UK, then we would have the freedom to do as such.

Steel will shoot up in price as the Chinese are selling at a loss, which can't be sustained.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's protectionism, which Trump is rightly getting caned for at the moment by anyone who has a clue about economics because a) it's counter-intuitive and b) it is no longer 1968 so it's not workable.

 

[Penk Wolf]

It's protectionism, which Trump is rightly getting caned for at the moment by anyone who has a clue about economics because a) it's counter-intuitive and b) it is no longer 1968 so it's not workable.

I tend to agree, but Steel isn't quite the same as protectionism.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Would we even have the capacity in this country now to produce all or even most of the steel that we need? Tons of the factories have been mothballed, run down or demolished, the workforce that was there has either retrained, retired or died.

 

[Tredman]

I think Penk's point is more relevant if countries are dumping goods at below cost, as China were.

 

[thehistorymakers]

It's protectionism, which Trump is rightly getting caned for at the moment by anyone who has a clue about economics because a) it's counter-intuitive and b) it is no longer 1968 so it's not workable.

China does quite well with protectionism, without democracy.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Would we even have the capacity in this country now to produce all or even most of the steel that we need? Tons of the factories have been mothballed, run down or demolished, the workforce that was there has either retrained, retired or died.

Steel is just example of what could have been stopped in the past, I don't know what will be the next where it will happen. It should have happened with coal too, although I'm not sure whether they were dumping coal or whether it was at the correct market value.

 

[Trips]

Maybe because most the Labour party wanted to remain in the EU, but accept the democratic result, which the remainers who voted against article 50, obviously don't.

So, take the SNP for example. Do you expect all SNP MP's to vote in favour of the bill, even though every part of Scotland voted remain? They should just pass any bill presented because of "the will of the people"

 

[thehistorymakers]

So, take the SNP for example. Do you expect all SNP MP's to vote in favour of the bill, even though every part of Scotland voted remain? They should just pass any bill presented because of "the will of the people"

Wasn't on about Scotland, was on about the Labour party.

 

[Trips]

Ok, so should the labour party just vote through any bill presented to them? Not challenge anything, just vote it through?

 

[Penk Wolf]

Ok, so should the labour party just vote through any bill presented to them? Not challenge anything, just vote it through?

My opinion, all MPs should vote based on how their constituents voted, regardless of where they stand on the issue.

 

[Tredman]

My opinion, all MPs should vote based on how their constituents voted, regardless of where they stand on the issue.

There's would be no point in MPs then. We choose representatives who are supposed to make educated decisions based on their viewpoint, the idea being we elect people who share our views.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

It's too late now, it has to be done at day one or not at all, however, for example, when/if Land Wind start selling their X7 in the UK, then we would have the freedom to do as such.

Steel will shoot up in price as the Chinese are selling at a loss, which can't be sustained.

Chinese steel alone didn't kill the industry in Britain though did it?

It was sliding over a prolonged period and if you try to fix it so they remain competitive you still end up inflating subsequent prices whether it's done on day one or decades down the line, eventually someone has to bear the brunt of the increased costs and somewhere along the line it becomes unaffordable so either you stop making the raw material, intermediary companies go to the wall or the final customers buy elsewhere that was produced at a lower cost.

I don't think you could really inflate prices too much on the back of something being 100% British before people stopped giving a shit and just bought best value instead, at the end of the day price nearly always wins.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Ok, so should the labour party just vote through any bill presented to them? Not challenge anything, just vote it through?

They should try to get ammendments, yes, but not vote against article 50.

 

[Trips]

They should try to get ammendments, yes, but not vote against article 50.

Why should they not vote against Article 50?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It was a one line bill. What amendments are you likely to get into that?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Why should they not vote against Article 50?

Because it was a national vote and they should accept the result. The majority of people voted to leave in the referendum.