REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[North West Wanderer]

There has definitely been an increase in anti-minority and immigrant feeling during the referendum; my wife is an immigrant and a postie - she has been subject to some pretty nasty comments over the past few weeks. Its sad and not a country I recognise, I hope we can pull it back into a good forward looking place to live

That's downright awful. Sorry to hear that.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Both my parents are over 55 and voted leave, whenever I questioned them though there didn't seem to be any overriding cause for them to go that way, just various misgivings about different things, half of which weren't really down to the EU.

My brother law voted out, based mostly on immigration, but he seems to look towards Farage all gleamy eyed, he voted UKIP at the GE too. He could perhaps be regretting his decision soon as they're about 3 weeks into a mortgage on their first home.

 

[So Long Architect]

I agree that mudslinging and name-calling isn't the way to go, but I disagree that we shouldn't look at the "why"?

For the majority of people, this hasn't been about the EU (because in reality only a very few people ever gave that much thought), it's about the massive divide that has arisen in our society between rich and poor, north and south etc. People are very angry and disillusioned with Westminster politics, the "elites", immigration generally. I disagree fundamentally with nearly everything THM has ever said, ever, but I do think he's right about the fundamental anger of the "working class".

I'm of the opinion that leaving the EU won't solve those issues and will actually exacerbate them but that doesn't matter now.

If the nation generally and politicians in particular don't address the fundamental issues that have led to people being so very angry - so dealing with the WHY - then we do risk a slide into an even more divided, intolerant and unpleasant society.

 

[Tredman]

That's downright awful. Sorry to hear that.

I'm hopeful we can go back to being a tolerant and just (if slightly poorer) society.

 

[nimrod]

No. It is about the £ regaining its strength against the other currencies, the markets recovering from their unexpected "shock" and the shares of British companies climbing back up after the mini fall. All this and a recovering of Pension funds is a must for the UK

same thing.

 

[Tredman]

Who on earth does Andrew Neill think he is kidding with his hair? Is it in honour of Donald Trump's visit?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

that's right. after we've managed the "transition of power from one etonian to the next" [i nicked that from twitter] it's important that we suck up to the City and big business enough to get pension levels back up.

Bar the etonians bit (which I like and may nick for my uses elsewhere!) I find your comment a little disingenuous. It isn't about sucking up to the City at all - it is about limiting the level and timeframe of damage.

If there is a huge pension hole companies will go to the wall, unemployment will rise, therefore the benefit bill will also rise. The markets will need re-assurance to get us through a difficult transition period here or the pain will be worse than can be achieved.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

same thing.

If you think that then there is little point in engaging with you on the point sadly.

 

[thehistorymakers]

There has definitely been an increase in anti-minority and immigrant feeling during the referendum; my wife is an immigrant and a postie - she has been subject to some pretty nasty comments over the past few weeks. Its sad and not a country I recognise, I hope we can pull it back into a good forward looking place to live

That is disgusting about your wife tredman. That isn't the way i want Britain to be. I would state here in Spain they are reporting it as a win for the far right and people who are against immigrants. Ironic as i have never seen a black or asian person working on the trains, busses, post service, police, judiciary service, ect ect and they think they aren't racist.
The UK is a tollerant society, but you will always get your idiots, still disgraceful that your wife has to put up with that.

 

[nimrod]

Bar the etonians bit (which I like and may nick for my uses elsewhere!) I find your comment a little disingenuous. It isn't about sucking up to the City at all - it is about limiting the level and timeframe of damage.

If there is a huge pension hole companies will go to the wall, unemployment will rise, therefore the benefit bill will also rise. The markets will need re-assurance to get us through a difficult transition period here or the pain will be worse than can be achieved.

perhaps my point is missed. i wasn't disagreeing with you - the point is that recovery won't be achieved by an anti "big business" agenda that had been regularly proposed by some on the EU thread as a reason for voting "out".

though not liking the words i used to express the same thing is purely semantics - time will tell in any case.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I agree that mudslinging and name-calling isn't the way to go, but I disagree that we shouldn't look at the "why"?

For the majority of people, this hasn't been about the EU (because in reality only a very few people ever gave that much thought), it's about the massive divide that has arisen in our society between rich and poor, north and south etc. People are very angry and disillusioned with Westminster politics, the "elites", immigration generally. I disagree fundamentally with nearly everything THM has ever said, ever, but I do think he's right about the fundamental anger of the "working class".

I'm of the opinion that leaving the EU won't solve those issues and will actually exacerbate them but that doesn't matter now.

If the nation generally and politicians in particular don't address the fundamental issues that have led to people being so very angry - so dealing with the WHY - then we do risk a slide into an even more divided, intolerant and unpleasant society.

I will give you one bit of WHY.

It has to be understood why the Labour heartlands went so massively Leave. Was it weakness from Labour leadership that labour members clearly voted for against the feelings of the parliamentary party? Was it that asking someone red through and through to vote for a campaign being heavily fronted by a Conservative prime minister was a bridge too far? Was it that policy implemented by that prime minister was so offensive in those areas that it was worth throwing the baby out with the bathwater in order to give him a personal kicking? Was it a mixture of the above? Was it something else entirely?

One thing that is very clear me with that huge Leave vote in those areas is that Jeremy Corbyn isn't batting on a sticky wicket. It is a rampant bumper and he is facing some potentially fatal political bouncers.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

perhaps my point is missed. i wasn't disagreeing with you - the point is that recovery won't be achieved by an anti "big business" agenda that had been regularly proposed by some on the EU thread as a reason for voting "out".

though not liking the words i used to express the same thing is purely semantics - time will tell in any case.

Ah - maybe I am barking up the wrong tree in my indignation then. Carry on sir, and I apologise if I have misunderstood you.

 

[Jolemai]

That is disgusting about your wife tredman. That isn't the way i want Britain to be. I would state here in Spain they are reporting it as a win for the far right and people who are against immigrants. Ironic as i have never seen a black or asian person working on the trains, busses, post service, police, judiciary service, ect ect and they think they aren't racist.
The UK is a tollerant society, but you will always get your idiots, still disgraceful that your wife has to put up with that.

Do you have a Spanish passport and if not, are you going to apply for one?

 

[Lycan]

Tough shit. They should of waited to have their referendum till after this one then. They made their bed as have the rest of the UK now.
London voted almost unanimously so should they get a referendum to split from the UK?
If it had been a Remain vote would Wales who largely voted Leave of been given a Referendum to leave the UK? No, I don't they would so Scotland can shut the fuck up

The three major reasons people voted No last time:

NO said that Scotland would not be able to re-enter the EU. That was blatantly bullshit then, it's bullshit now.

No clear answer from YES over the currency. We've got our answer now, we'll have the Euro thanks.

The vow made by NO on the eve of the referendum. The overwhelming majority up here feel that they were lied to regarding that vow, there had been calls for a second referendum on this point alone.

Scotland will be an independent country within 3-4 years IMO. I think our first act should be to dig a ditch along the border and cast you poor buggers out into the channel.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That is disgusting about your wife tredman. That isn't the way i want Britain to be. I would state here in Spain they are reporting it as a win for the far right and people who are against immigrants. Ironic as i have never seen a black or asian person working on the trains, busses, post service, police, judiciary service, ect ect and they think they aren't racist.
The UK is a tollerant society, but you will always get your idiots, still disgraceful that your wife has to put up with that.

It isn't a win for the far right. Not really. Especially when you consider that the key votes have come from the heartlands of a left of centre party. Something very odd there, but I will leave finding out exactly what to electoral analysts.

You are presumably following the Spanish coverage fairly closely this morning. Bar that "far right claim" is there anything else that they are saying about what is going on? Any reaction from the Spanish government (bar trying to reclaim Gibraltar that I have already seen)?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Do you have a Spanish passport and if not, are you going to apply for one?

I have permanent residency. Lived here half my life and my kids were born here. I have no problems to continue living here.

 

[Premier Quality]

He will probably be a candidate. Just because he is on the Conservative ballot paper doesn't mean he will win, but I fear he has a pretty decent chance.

Boris, Putin, and Trump is a slight worry.

I like Boris, and having successfully run London for eight years, he has far more experience than anyone else around. I'd be happy for him to get it.

 

[Johnny75]

Scotland won't be able to enter the EU. It would have to become an accession country for 5 years before full membership and at the moment the Scottish economy wouldn't meet the required entry standards.

Good luck getting to them though without the English welfare state propping you up.

 

[darlowolf64]

same thing.

Really? After the predictable fall in the UK markets and of the £, you don't want them all to recover and the Country to grow stronger?

I want my £ to be worth more than 1$ or 1e

 

[So Long Architect]

I like Boris, and having successfully run London for eight years, he has far more experience than anyone else around. I'd be happy for him to get it.

If by "successful" you mean letting property developers run rampant, selling half of the city to foreign billionaires, and generally doing fuck all of any worth in eight years, then yes, he'll be an absolute godsend for the whole nation.