REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Johnny75]

The Scottish independence referendum resulted in a 'remain part of the UK' decision.
The Scots who were then part of the UK took part in a whole UK - EU referendum resulting in a 'leave the EU' vote.
The Scots are part of the UK.
They have no grounds to remain a part of the EU, to have their own referendum, to block Brexit or anything else.

Doesn't mean they can't have another referendum to stay or leave the UK though does it?

 

[So Long Architect]

The Scottish independence referendum resulted in a 'remain part of the UK' decision.
The Scots who were then part of the UK took part in a whole UK - EU referendum resulting in a 'leave the EU' vote.
The Scots are part of the UK.
They have no grounds to remain a part of the EU, to have their own referendum, to block Brexit or anything else.

Why can't they have another referendum? We had two on EU membership.

 

[arklowolf]

No I hope they do. Personally I think England should have had an independence vote too.

 

[thehistorymakers]

The phrase "will of the people" or similar goes back centuries. It is often trotted out to justify bad or unpopular things being done by the powerful or the "winners" to others.

Contrary to your trite assertions about me - I have no real problem with the idea of leaving the EU, my problem is with those who are going to make it happen which is why I voted to remain. I don't trust racists, xenophobes and right wing politicians to effect either the exit from the EU or a post EU Britain that I want.

Much of what I have debated with you in the last few days has not been opinion, it has been fact. I don't think you are wrong. You are.

An intelligent man thinks outside the box. Even if he has political views, he shouldn't be constrained by what his side thinks. Sometimes you can believe in something, but you realise what your side is arguing for even though you agree with their ideals, is wrong. That is being independent, someone who thinks outside of the box, using their intelligence to come to terms with something which is just and right even though you don't agree with it.
I like your contribution to this forum and think you are an excellent poster, I won't try to ridicule you, or insulting you. Politically I have more in common with you than I disagree with you on, but here you are arguing a long idealistic lines. Following instead of leading, looking for loopholes instead of looking for decency and fairness. You are thinking within the safety of a box and not opening your mind to a free democratic result, given to us by Parliament and then you are falling in to line, with the people in the box, whose only intention is to take away what was democratically voted for. Underneath you are better than that!

 

[thehistorymakers]

Why can't they have another referendum? We had two on EU membership.

Because parliament had the power to ask for 2 referendums, when they passed the original bill in 2015. 84% including a massive majority of Labour MP'S voted for the rules of the referendum. If they wanted more than one, they should have objected then, instead of voting for the rules of the referendum were that were given.
If you play a football match, you know if there is a return leg before you play the match. You can't ask for another match to decide the result, just because you lost. I didn't see you post for another referendum before remain had lost, so I don't think you have the right to ask for one now.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Really? So considering how something might happen should have no bearing on if something might happen?

The lessons of history are littered with good intentions.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Why can't they have another referendum? We had two on EU membership.

Sorry I thought you were asking for another EU referendum, which you weren't.

 

[Johnny75]

Because parliament had the power to ask for 2 referendums, when they passed the original bill in 2015. 84% including a massive majority of Labour MP'S voted for the rules of the referendum. If they wanted more than one, they should have objected then, instead of voting for the rules of the referendum were that were given.
If you play a football match, you know if there is a return leg before you play the match. You can't ask for another match to decide the result, just because you lost. I didn't see you post for another referendum before remain had lost, so I don't think you have the right to ask for one now.

You can't tell people what they have the right to do, that way is the path to tyranny. If the scots want another referendum based on where we are now as a union that is up to them. Not tinpot dictators not living there.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

What do you think about the comments of Nigel Farage on the day of the referendum when the exit polls were suggesting a vote to remain? He basically said a remain vote "would not be the end of this" and that he would "push for a second poll".

So now the result has gone his way, those on the other side of the argument should not be allowed what the flagship politician of the leave campaign himself demanded?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Really? So considering how something might happen should have no bearing on if something might happen?

The lessons of history are littered with good intentions.

It would be treating normal working class and poor people with contempt to say we shouldn't listen to their democratic victory, because I know what I'm talking about and they are xenophobes, racist and old people. To think your vote should be worth more than someone else's because you think you are more intelligent, is not only dangerous, but unjust and ridiculous.

 

[thehistorymakers]

What do you think about the comments of Nigel Farage on the day of the referendum when the exit polls were suggesting a vote to remain? He basically said a remain vote "would not be the end of this" and that he would "push for a second poll".

So now the result has gone his way, those on the other side of the argument should not be allowed what the flagship politician of the leave campaign himself demanded?

I would say he was desperate, a bad loser and talking bollocks.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Of course you would

 

[thehistorymakers]

You can't tell people what they have the right to do, that way is the path to tyranny. If the scots want another referendum based on where we are now as a union that is up to them. Not tinpot dictators not living there.

Seems above post.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

It would be treating normal working class and poor people with contempt to say we shouldn't listen to their democratic victory, because I know what I'm talking about and they are xenophobes, racist and old people. To think your vote should be worth more than someone else's because you think you are more intelligent, is not only dangerous, but unjust and ridiculous.

Except I didn't say any of that.

I don't trust those who are responsible for implementing our exit from the EU because I believe them to be racist, xenophobic and right wing (and not the acceptable right wing). I have not said that those who voted to leave are those things.

Challenge me on what I actually write and don't make stuff up.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Of course you would

I accepted defeat the moment the exit Poll gave remain the victory. I say what I believe and what I think. I do not follow a party, or a person. I follow my own ideals. It might open me for ridicule, but I think for myself, that is the way I am. When I have been wrong on something on this forum, which I have, I have apologised and said sorry.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Except I didn't say any of that.

I don't trust those who are responsible for implementing our exit from the EU because I believe them to be racist, xenophobic and right wing (and not the acceptable right wing). I have not said that those who voted to leave are those things.

Challenge me on what I actually write and don't make stuff up.

Then fight to defeat them at a general election, not to make us stay in the EU, which we have voted to leave.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I am not fighting to make us stay in the EU - where do you get off making this crap up?

I will continue to rail against how we leave. There has been nothing in any of my posts about staying in the EU, this whole recent discussion has been about how we leave.

And you questioned my intelligence??

 

[thehistorymakers]

I am not fighting to make us stay in the EU - where do you get off making this crap up?

I will continue to rail against how we leave. There has been nothing in any of my posts about staying in the EU, this whole recent discussion has been about how we leave.

And you questioned my intelligence??

I didn't question your intelligence, I said you weren't using it to think outside the box and think for yourself. read the post again.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I didn't question your intelligence, I said you weren't using it, read the post again.

Annoying when people make stuff up isn't it.

An intelligent man thinks outside the box you said and then say I am not thinking outside the box. I think I can take from that you might be questioning my intelligence

 

[Aikiwolf]

Anyone know why this thread got shut down a while back?