REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[thehistorymakers]

What the same sovereign parliament that you don't want to have a say?

They had a say 6 to 1 to give us a vote to leave or stay in the EU. It would be gross hypocrisy now, for the same MP'S who voted to give us a say, vote not to listen to the democratic result to leave the EU.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I am not concerned about entering trade discussions at anytime and yes I did vote against EU interference, I believe you voted for EU interference against the interests of our sovereign parliament?

Ahhh so you do want our parliament to be sovereign? You should have been DELIGHTED with the recent court ruling then!

 

[Trips]

We voted to leave the EU. That means taking back control of our own laws, own borders and our own sovereignty.
That is what we will do, and we would like to stay in the single market, but the EU have said we won't be able to. So if we remain in the single market, we will lose our sovereignty by default. The EU are saying you can stay in the single market , but you can't control your own laws, borders or sovereignty. So we will control our sovereignty, which is what we voted for, after all, that is what leaving the EU means, regaining sovereign control and being represented by people who you vote for, not by people you don't vote for.
We will be left to make the best trade deals on an individual basis, not because we necessarily want that, but because that is the threat from the EU. Trade with us and we will control your laws, borders and sovereignty. We voted to break that yoke, to regain parliamentary democracy. That is why I disagree with leave voters now, wanting the EU to be tough on the UK, not only did you vote against our direct sovereignty, you keep supporting an EU which is openly trying to punish the UK.

Which leave voters have said they want the EU to be tough on us?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Which leave voters have said they want the EU to be tough on us?

Read back through this thread.

 

[Johnny75]

I am not concerned about entering trade discussions at anytime and yes I did vote against EU interference, I believe you voted for EU interference against the interests of our sovereign parliament?

Was that on the ballot paper as I don't remember reading it?

As with others, you must be delighted with the court ruling that said parliament must have a vote, no? And what are you so afraid of that you don't want parliament to have a vote?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Was that on the ballot paper as I don't remember reading it?

A vote to leave means to to leave the EU. By leaving the EU, you take back control of your laws, borders and sovereignty, something we didn't have being in the EU.

Didn't you realise what remain meant?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Ahhh so you do want our parliament to be sovereign? You should have been DELIGHTED with the recent court ruling then!

I wasn't delighted but I accepted it, like you have accepted we have voted to leave the EU and we are leaving it?
Are you happy we will regain sovereign democracy and will longer be controlled by people we don't vote for?

 

[visage]

We voted to leave the EU.

No,we didn't. We voted to advise parliament of our collective opinion.

 

[Johnny75]

A to vote leave means to to leave the EU. By leaving the EU, you take back control of your laws, borders and sovereignty, something we didn't have being in the EU.

Didn't you realise what remain meant?

Difficult to know what leaving the EU in an advisory referendum meant. Apparently it meant that no more foreigners could enter Britain and the NHS would be £350m better off each week.

Remaining in the EU was, well, remaining in the EU. I quite liked it that way hence I voted for it. As far as I know our parliament could still make its own laws and set its own fiscal structure so I didn't really see much of a problem. The EU has its flaws as all organisations do, including our own sovereign parliament, or do you think that it doesn't?

Also, why do you think we lost our sovereignty?

 

[MARKakaJIM]

 

[thehistorymakers]

Remaining in the EU was, well, remaining in the EU. I quite liked it that way hence I voted for it. As far as I know our parliament could still make its own laws and set its own fiscal structure so I didn't really see much of a problem. The EU has its flaws as all organisations do, including our own sovereign parliament, or do you think that it doesn't?

I think you vote for a sovereign parliament, EU commisioners didn't need our votes to dictate our policies.

 

[Johnny75]

I think you vote for a sovereign parliament, EU commisioners didn't need our votes to dictate our policies.

That literally makes no sense. Could our parliament make its own laws?

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I wasn't delighted but I accepted it, like you have accepted we have voted to leave the EU and we are leaving it?
Are you happy we will regain sovereign democracy and will longer be controlled by people we don't vote for?

You should have been delighted as Theresa May was trying to bypass our sovereign parliament, something you think the EU were trying to do and was so against.

Am I happy we will regain sovereign democracy? We never lost it did we?

 

[thehistorymakers]

That literally makes no sense. Could our parliament make its own laws?

It didn't say that as you know.

 

[thehistorymakers]

You should have been delighted as Theresa May was trying to bypass our sovereign parliament, something you think the EU were trying to do and was so against.

Am I happy we will regain sovereign democracy? We never lost it did we?

7 months is plenty of time to enact article 50 and plenty of time to come to terms with losing the referendum.

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

7 months is plenty of time to enact article 50 and plenty of time to come to terms with losing the referendum.

That has nothing to do with anything I said.

 

[Trips]

7 months is plenty of time to enact article 50 and plenty of time to come to terms with losing the referendum.

Why is there this massive urgency to trigger article 50? Do you not think it's better to have a clearer idea of what post-Brexit looks like, rather than just hitting the button and then seeing what happens?

 

[The Saturday Boy]

The EU has bi-lateral agreements with a number of EU countries in relation to the single market and all those agreements have some elements of full EU membership attached to them - financial contributions, acceptance of EU laws, free movement... it shouldn't really be a surprise that the EU would have similar expectations of the UK ahead of any negotiations. It is hardly punishment to want to adopt similar arrangements that others have. It is the UK that is ruling this out. I am fairly sure we could get a model similar to say Norway or Switzerland without too much fuss but we have already ruled that out.

Despite my occasional descent into incredulity, I think most of what I have posted has been quite reasonable and balanced.

I think Parliament should have a much greater say in the processes of withdrawal - taking back control of our sovereignty if you like.

Our democratic procedures such as displayed by the Supreme Court should be upheld as just and fair - taking back control of our laws.

And finally, the will of the people is not an excuse for government to ride rough shod over the aspirations of nearly half those who voted in the referendum.

I never expected or even hoped that Parliament would block the government triggering article 50, individual MPs who voted against it are entitled to do so in a representative democracy and will justify their decision to those they represent. Those who vote for article 50 in a consequence where remain was strong will face potential consequences.

SNP are absolutely right to vote against Article 50 - their stance is entirely consistent with a representative democracy. Scotland voted to remain, SNP are elected to Parliament to represent the interests of Scotland within the union. They are a political party so that they may have political reasons for their position is hardly a surprise - they were elected as a political party after all.

THM's whole argument is based on the premise that if you disagree with him you must want to stay in the EU whatever. Maybe there are some posters on here who can't accept the outcome of the referendum, if there are they are keeping it very quiet.

 

[Jabbawolf]

I have no idea why you lot think there is any point in trying to have a reasoned debate - I had better odds making progress in a discussion with my ex-wife when Arsenal were at home.

 

[So Long Architect]

So to summarise -

sovereign parliament = fucking ace when it votes to approve a referendum
sovereign parliament = enemy of the people when it wants to debate the outcome of the referendum

And you say this isn't just you wanting people to do exactly what you say.