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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Please explain how we're going to reinvigorate a manufacturing sector which has been left to rot for 35+ years and has been moribund for about 20 years.

What do you mean by manufacturing though? Our state of the art manufacturing and bespoke manufacturing is the best in the world and over capacity. We are never going to compete with China or Eastern Europe in volume manufacturing because of our success and consequently high wage rates and we were getting some very good deals from Spain before we voted leave.

One of the biggest issues our manufacturing sector had was its inability to change and innovate and it killed itself because of this, the unions and the rise of other economies doing the same thing but cheaper and in some cases better. The best example being Rover.

This is what makes the Brexit vote more confusing for me as those that are saying we should make manufacturing great again generally have absolutely no clue how manufacturing has changed over the last decade.
 
What do you mean by manufacturing though? Our state of the art manufacturing and bespoke manufacturing is the best in the world and over capacity. We are never going to compete with China or Eastern Europe in volume manufacturing because of our success and consequently high wage rates and we were getting some very good deals from Spain before we voted leave.

One of the biggest issues our manufacturing sector had was its inability to change and innovate and it killed itself because of this, the unions and the rise of other economies doing the same thing but cheaper and in some cases better. The best example being Rover.

This is what makes the Brexit vote more confusing for me as those that are saying we should make manufacturing great again generally have absolutely no clue how manufacturing has changed over the last decade.

I mean at this stage you are not going to suddenly see a Lazarus style conversion of the likes of Stoke, Middlesbrough, Glasgow, South Wales, the Black Country and everything will be as it was in 1961.

Those industries are gone and they aren't coming back. Same goes with Trump's rhetoric about the Rust Belt.
 
Oh yes, it seems that the industries have moved on but the voting public want to return to a misty eyed time that really wasn't that great.
 
The days of mass employment in manual labour are surely gone forever. Definitely in this country and probably round the world as automation takes over more and more. Insecure gig economy jobs in the service sector might be the future for the majority of young people now. Some variant of the universal basic income will need to be properly tested at some point.
 
It's hard to envisage any strategy to reinvigorate the UKs manufacturing base that's starts with leaving your biggest export market.
 
We had 40 years in the EU or common market and it hasn't worked for working class people. Now people complain that the working class have voted to change the status quo. To vote Labour, Tory or Liberal was a vote for neoliberalism governments, whose only interest was make things easier for multinationals and impoverished the working class, yes that's right, impoverished. The UK has 4 million workers who are in poverty.

This is where I never understand any of your arguments. Plenty of us on here will agree with you about the poorest members of our society being disgracefully treated. That there are workers in this country that are in poverty is no shocking revelation. Being a member of the EU isn't the reason why the working classes are being left behind, it's because they have been shafted by successive UK governments. I fully understand why the people who voted leave are angry but, with help from a media who successfully manage to deflect blame from the government onto immigrants, they are aiming their anger at the wrong people.

Many on here will also agree with you that neoliberal governments have made multinationals richer and the poor poorer. Again, it has nothing to do with us being a member of the EU and voting to leave will have no positive impact on this whatsoever. Your arguments don't make any sense.
 
There are no poor people in non EU countries. FACT.
 
Our greatest period of economic prosperity since the Industrial Revolution came between about 1997 and 2006. Obviously the EU is irrelevant for that decade.

Worth noting who wasn't in Government then as well.
 
You must have spoken to a select few as Machin's film isn't a rarity. The people I have spoken to who voted leave were nothing to do with trade deals and all about immigration. The Daily Mail and Express led on this day after day.

I don't have time to look through your posts but I don't remember you mentioning it at all, more about sovereignty, law and infrastructure not being ready for all the immigration we have from the EU. Can you point me to any literature anywhere which stated anything about getting the best trade deals is the most important factor?

I was answering a post from The Saturday Boy. If you look up at my post 3813, you are saying the same thing as I was, basically not too much about trade and more interested in gaining control of our borders, sovereignty and laws and not mentioning a single market too often and getting the best deals possible.
 
Our greatest period of economic prosperity since the Industrial Revolution came between about 1997 and 2006. Obviously the EU is irrelevant for that decade.

Worth noting who wasn't in Government then as well.

Yes, but we have been in the EEC since 1975.
 
Indeed we have. Not fair to paint it as 40 years of abject failure then really, is it? If at least 25% of that time was spent in a period of pretty much unprecedented success in modern times.

Almost as if the EU is a sidefactor and it's domestic policies which drive how the economy runs.
 
We joined in 1973, this was endorsed by a referendum in 1975.
 
We keep talking about where will the workers come from? In or out of the EU there is a work permit process in place that allows for the right workers foir the right vacancies. Will we still have polish electrician's here post brexit? I fully expect so. Will they get a work permit? I fully expect so. Will that help stop the excess immigration that is the problem? I hope so. When you have 70 million living in a system design for 60 max the first thing you need to is stop the increase. Border controls , immigration controls is only a start point. A long term investment plan to improve the infrastructure is also required.
 
Send the buggers back.



Oh do grow up leeds! I have never advocated sending the buggers back ffs. That's just a convenient hook that remain supporters tag brexiters with and really its a cheap shot. Granted there are some Neanderthal brexiters but there are idiot remainers too. With a stretched NHS, no new housing, soaring London house prices, a London centric economy , motorway queues and city traffic chaos infrastructure investment is a must. Blair Brown Major Cameron and May have all so far failed to make this investment. Why? Its a vite loser as it requires a tax rise. Its alright to complain but not alright to pay. Raise the tax to 25% and 45% post brexit and invest. In the long term we will be better off. But most voters don't see it that way
 
We could have raised taxes to fund infrastructure without leaving the EU and the single market, thus depriving millions of birthright citzenship and shutting off our biggest trading partner.

Very few of the problems that the UK faces have been caused by the EU, directly or indirectly. It's the wrong target.
 
Patronising $$$$.

Well stop replying like a 12 year old and debate things then you Muppet! Stop picking one little phrase and tarring us all with the same brush. I fully respect remainer point of view and have not once resorted to cheap shots or easy stereotypical soundbites. Please do the same and offer your solutions to the problems. Brexit is happening. What I want is for the whole thing to be positive in the long term.
 
Well stop replying like a 12 year old and debate things then you Muppet! Stop picking one little phrase and tarring us all with the same brush. I fully respect remainer point of view and have not once resorted to cheap shots or easy stereotypical soundbites. Please do the same and offer your solutions to the problems. Brexit is happening. What I want is for the whole thing to be positive in the long term.

And to think he called me a racist.
 
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