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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

There will be a section of leave voters who won't know what the single market is or give a flying fuck whether we are in it or not.

These people voted because they were fed up of immigrants 'taking our jobs', 'taking our houses' and 'filling our hospitals'. As long as it looks like the government are taking a stand on immigration they will be happy.
 
Tyrannosaurus Dan said:
There will be a section of leave voters who won't know what the single market is or give a flying fuck whether we are in it or not.

These people voted because they were fed up of immigrants 'taking our jobs', 'taking our houses' and 'filling our hospitals'. As long as it looks like the government are taking a stand on immigration they will be happy.
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You mean like this rascist old prick

 
Not that his argument or logic makes any sense, but it's not really racist.
 
Brexit means Brexit. There was no hard or soft Brexit before the referendum. Brexit meant and means, a UK government taking back control, of our courts, border controls and sovereignty.
Our government has to and will get the best deal on trade possible with the EU and be able to get the best trade deals worldwide.
If the EU try to punish us for leaving the EU, to try to persuade other countries leaving, it doesn't change what we voted for and are leaving the EU. I would have thought it would have made some remainers of had second thoughts, about the EU trying to bully the UK and maybe think the EU isn't such a nice thing after all and start supporting their own country, instead of the EU.
 
Tony Towner said:
I don't think May has a lot of choice other than to go for the hard Brexit option irrespective of whether she believes it is the correct one or whether she can deliver it.

Two things are clear firstly that any deal that didn't involve the UK controlling it's own immigration wouldn't be acceptable to the majority of those who voted leave as this was the driving factor behind their vote and secondly the EU wouldn't let us stay in the single market without free movement of people so this really was the only option open to her and she has to try and make the best of it.

Personally I think we will end up with a complex agreement with the EU with different tariffs across multiple areas. I think free trade will exist in some markets which suits them, cars definitely, food possibly, tourism probably and not in others where the stand to gain less. I'd be amazed if this was negotiated in 2 years though.
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i agree with this. there probably was some 'choice', in language at least, for the pm, but given the general rhetoric from gvt to date the position tabled seemed inevitable. at this stage, in any case, you could term the language used as pre-negotiation bluster and PR. the gvt wants a good deal, but it can only play with the cards in its hand. you'll only know the true position once a deal is struck and all the good/bad conclusions being made are to a large degree hypothetical depending on the view you choose to take.

as with any change there are risks and opportunities. i think it's inevitable that most of the opportunities will be taken by large corporates which gvt will rely on to make brexit a 'success'. we see already with the incidence of private meetings & assurances being given to potential investors, CT cuts and the potential for more if we have to compete for that investment.
 
Why will the government be able to negotiate better deals than have via the EU?
 
Also, what EU laws would you like to see repealed?
 
thehistorymakers said:
Brexit means Brexit. There was no hard or soft Brexit before the referendum. Brexit meant and means, a UK government taking back control, of our courts, border controls and sovereignty.
Our government has to and will get the best deal on trade possible with the EU and be able to get the best trade deals worldwide.
If the EU try to punish us for leaving the EU, to try to persuade other countries leaving, it doesn't change what we voted for and are leaving the EU. I would have thought it would have made some remainers of had second thoughts, about the EU trying to bully the UK and maybe think the EU isn't such a nice thing after all and start supporting their own country, instead of the EU.
Click to expand...

Brexit didn't mean anything before the referendum but there were plenty of opinions expressed bout what it might be - from a withdrawal from the democratic mechanisms of the EU but staying in things (like Norway) to complete withdrawal were discussed and these look like "soft and hard" to me.

More accurately, it is your opinion about Brexit that you describe.
 
A few questions for thehistorymakers.

How has the Spanish media/government reacted to yesterdays speech. Are they willing to do a reciprocal deal with the UK regarding nationals living in others countries and if not how will families with both nationalities within them be treated? Have they mentioned arrangements for healthcare?
 
Maybe some leave voters might have second thoughts in witnessing our government trying to bully the EU with threats of turning our sceptered isle into the Caymans with more rain if we don't get our way, especially as the reduced corporation tax receipts will sort of have to be accounted for, probably by in a reduction in services to make the books balance.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
Maybe some leave voters might have second thoughts in witnessing our government trying to bully the EU with threats of turning our sceptered isle into the Caymans with more rain if we don't get our way, especially as the reduced corporation tax receipts will sort of have to be accounted for, probably by in a reduction in services to make the books balance.
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If Companies come to the UK in their droves due to the taxation rates being so low, where will the workers come from?
 
It is more likely that the reduced corporation rates will be keeping the companies already here as the tariffs we are going to see from Brexit need to be countered to entice them to stay.
 
It is often argued that Ireland's low corporation tax rate drove the Celtic Tiger, the Irish economic boom that George Osborne so envied...until it collapsed around their ears. In reality, the Irish economy was growing well before they dropped their corporation tax to 12.5%. The biggest single positive impact on their economy appears to be their entry into the EU single market. The single market we are leaving.

Lower rates of corporation tax, as Pad points out, is likely to be primarily aimed at keeping existing companies here rather than attracting new ones especially if any barriers to trading within the single market wipe out any benefits of the lower rate. So the impact of lower corporation tax will effectively be an internal transfer of money from the public sector (taxation pays for things) to the shareholders. More wealth for a few at the expense of the many.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
It is often argued that Ireland's low corporation tax rate drove the Celtic Tiger, the Irish economic boom that George Osborne so envied...until it collapsed around their ears. In reality, the Irish economy was growing well before they dropped their corporation tax to 12.5%. The biggest single positive impact on their economy appears to be their entry into the EU single market. The single market we are leaving.

Lower rates of corporation tax, as Pad points out, is likely to be primarily aimed at keeping existing companies here rather than attracting new ones especially if any barriers to trading within the single market wipe out any benefits of the lower rate. So the impact of lower corporation tax will effectively be an internal transfer of money from the public sector (taxation pays for things) to the shareholders. More wealth for a few at the expense of the many.
Click to expand...

The main thing that drove the Irish economy was a massive influx of money from The UK via the EU. Once we'd spent it all and and the tap was turned off the economy collapsed.
We're left with some great roads with no cars on them, metropolitan sized public buildings for councils to run one horse towns from. A backward rail network, decimated fishing and industry sectors, decrepit hospitals, drug problems, castrated, demoralised Garda force, boarded up shops and pubs, disappearing national identity, no chance for the young to get a proper job and get on the housing ladder. Indirect taxes left right and centre trying to balance the books to keep funding the wasteful public sector and politicos. Thanks EU, thanks Fianna fail, thanks Bertie Ahern. Nice experiment while it lasted.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Brexit didn't mean anything before the referendum but there were plenty of opinions expressed bout what it might be - from a withdrawal from the democratic mechanisms of the EU but staying in things (like Norway) to complete withdrawal were discussed and these look like "soft and hard" to me.

More accurately, it is your opinion about Brexit that you describe.
Click to expand...

That was the media, Saturday, not the people. I have never met a single person who voted Brexit, that didn't say they wanted to regain control of UK borders and I never met a single person before the referendum, Who Voted Leave, who would put a trade deal before, sovereignty, controlling our borders and laws.
 
Visage said:
Why will the government be able to negotiate better deals than have via the EU?
Click to expand...

Visage said:
Also, what EU laws would you like to see repealed?
Click to expand...

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