REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Doctor Doog]

Whilst in the UK, I spoke to 4 people who voted remain who would now say they would vote to leave. I never spoke to one person, who had voted to leave who would now want to stay. They were all Conservative voters who were divided between their own financial position and not generally being in love with the EU in the first place.

You do understand that 4 people out of 60 million isn't a representative sample don't you?

 

[thehistorymakers]

You do understand that 4 people out of 60 million isn't a representative sample don't you?

Yes, of course. Just like an anonymous pole on the Wolves forum isn't.

 

[thehistorymakers]

How British people can support these people is beyond me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

 

[Tredman]

You've already made you opinion on poles quite clear

 

[Deleted Cyber]

We have both shouted at each other over Brexit but mostly in a reasonable fashion I hope! I don't agree with Cyber, I don't like the basic tenets of the idea. However I respect his right to that view and I am happy to debate, even if we get gnarly at times.

I can do gnarly. Its what makes the world go round. Two gnarly people from differing views lock horns and eventually compromise on both sides gives a solution both can live with. For me that's what I hope for with brexit. I wear my heart on my sleeve like several on here. I don't however, ever set out to offend. If I do cause offence It is not meant. This is a fans forum. Not worth falling out over

 

[thehistorymakers]

You've already made you opinion on poles quite clear

Hard working and law abiding citizens that have bought a lot to our society. Of course, they should be able to continue to live in the UK.

 

[YoungWolf]

I have spoken to quite a lot of people who now regret voting leave. And quite a lot of people who said 'I voted leave but I never expected them to win' which is an odd way to vote.

 

[Premier Quality]

It would be mildy interesting to see what the % change was compared to the pre-referendum poll. Clearly the gap between leave and remain wouldn't be representative of real life, but the gap change would potentially

What was it before?

Cyber is a decent guy, we don't always agree but mostly we can discuss things properly. I don't think the majority of people who voted Leave are in that bracket.

Do you mean on here or generally?

 

[So Long Architect]

How British people can support these people is beyond me.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37650077

I fail to see how you can have a problem with what he's saying. You wanted Brexit, you said "out means out" and he's agreeing with you.

It's contradictory for passionate advocates of Brexit to continue to argue that Britain should be getting a good deal from Europe.

 

[machin05]

Whilst in the UK, I spoke to 4 people who voted remain who would now say they would vote to leave. I never spoke to one person, who had voted to leave who would now want to stay. They were all Conservative voters who were divided between their own financial position and not generally being in love with the EU in the first place.

There were at least 4 leavers interviewed on TV on the morning of the result that said they would vote to remain had they realised the consequences.

 

[thehistorymakers]

There were at least 4 leavers interviewed on TV on the morning of the result that said they would vote to remain had they realised the consequences.

I watched the TV coverage before the election, too. That doesn't surprise me!

 

[thehistorymakers]

I fail to see how you can have a problem with what he's saying. You wanted Brexit, you said "out means out" and he's agreeing with you.

It's contradictory for passionate advocates of Brexit to continue to argue that Britain should be getting a good deal from Europe.

From the article.


However, Mr Tusk again stressed that the choice would be the UK's alone to make whether Brexit "is really in their interest".

----------------

He doesn"t understand, we have already voted!!! They are trying to interfere and influence, as always in our democratic process. They want to bully us and it makes me feel sick, how British people prefer to side with these people, instead of their own elected politicians.

It is sad that a generation of British people have been indoctrinated so much, to belittle and backstab their own country and stick up for the EU. We have people on this forum, who were born in England, who want Scotland to leave the UK, to spite the Brexit side they loathe so much, that to me is repugnant.

The EU is a shambles, take a trip to southern Europe and see the poverty. Hundreds of billions of EU money has evaporated, with no benefit for the local people.

 

[So Long Architect]

From the article.


However, Mr Tusk again stressed that the choice would be the UK's alone to make whether Brexit "is really in their interest".

----------------

He doesn"t understand, we have already voted!!! They are trying to interfere and influence, as always in our democratic process. They want to bully us and it makes me feel sick, how British people prefer to side with these people, instead of their own elected politicians.

It is sad that a generation of British people have been indoctrinated so much, to belittle and backstab their own country and stick up for the EU. We have people on this forum, who were born in England, who want Scotland to leave the UK, to spite the Brexit side they loathe so much, that to me is repugnant.

The EU is a shambles, take a trip to southern Europe and see the poverty. Hundreds of billions of EU money has evaporated, with no benefit for the local people.

We also have people on this forum who seem to delight in the fact that people who hold a different view to themselves will suffer.

 

[Penk Wolf]

I fail to see how you can have a problem with what he's saying. You wanted Brexit, you said "out means out" and he's agreeing with you.

It's contradictory for passionate advocates of Brexit to continue to argue that Britain should be getting a good deal from Europe.

I'm not really sure why 'out means out', surely you have to negotiate what is the best exit for the UK and hard exit certainly won't be. Surely, hard exit will be close borders and no free market, but neither of those would be good short term or long term?

 

[Penk Wolf]

We also have people on this forum who seem to delight in the fact that people who hold a different view to themselves will suffer.

Lemonjelly and his lot?

 

[Deleted Cyber]

As a confirmed campaigning brexiter I have tried to negotiate and fight my corner on here however a number of you have asked what I think it will look like. That I have said is hard to say and will take time. The better question is what do I want it to look like. That may still be a guess but at least you could see my mindset. This is not just about brexit its about the shape of Britain in the future. Brexit was the starter for me to get us under our own control .So apologies if this post is a bit long but here goes

Access to the single market for trading to remain
London to remain as financial centre
Freedom of movement to be replaced by freedom of working movement where you get a job and a working visa renewable annually. On grant of visa you get issued a NI number and a tax code. Your tax code as a non British worker is 5% higher. This pays for the visa system. This removes benefits migrants from the equation instantly. If you lose your job within the first year no benefits at all but you can look for another job. If you get one you must update your visa. Visa renewed every 12 months online. After 5 years apply for citizen ship and go to standard UK tax if you become a citizen. If not no worries but you pay more tax and get less out.
All UK student fees to be scrapped. However non British citizens must pay the current rate.
All 18-21 year olds in Britain would be entitled to a 5k a year bursary if they are in full time education or training for an apprenticeship in one of the trades that the UK identifies as a skills gap. Building, construction, electrician, plumber. This bursary is repaid post qualification by an increase of 2.5 % on the tax of the tradesman or the degree holder when working. No eligibility for benefits under 21 except for disability benefits naturally. If you are capable of working or training then you will be required to do that and get 5k a year from the state for your troubles. Of course you would also get a basic apprentice pay from your employer so you would end up with a wage- not huge but a wage and a trade.
Re-investment in industry for public services. Negotiate a national tender with a company to build bespoke vehicle for public service and then supply them nationally. All police vehicles would then be one type. NHS 1 type etc. It keeps repairs , maintenance and costs down. Because you are out of EU rules you could stipulate the vehicles are built in UK. Nissan and Vauxhall would be very interested in that as both parent company’s are outside of the EU. Another lever for a decent trade agreement. The longer term instead of converting a car to an ambulance or police vehicle there would be a national spec and design for that type of vehicle much like a London taxi is designed purely for that role.
Visas for holidays abroad- we used to do it no reason why we cant go back to kit. It was never onerus. The system works both ways.
Trade agreements to be negotiated with whomever we want or like based on our consumer requirements
Significant further investment to be made in the research of Fracking for the North of England. There are the largest reserves of the gas. The reliance on foreign oil and gas is currently far too high. If safe licensed fracking will create a significant amount of jobs in the North East and North west both areas of the UK that could really do with this type of boost. Anything that narrows the north south divide but it must be safe.
Scrap HS2. Its a waste of time and money at the moment and we have our plates full in other ways. It is not a priority.
All new social housing is to be built with solar panels on the roof attached to the national grid. All long term disability benefits claimants get the opportunity for free solar on their property to minimise bills and reduce cost to the state.
Housing benefit will not be paid in London after a certain date for more than 6 months . I know its a bit draconian but with rents at 2k a ,month why would 15 or 1600 of that be covered by the tax payer. Encouragement and support to move to a cheaper area. ( It sounds like ethnic cleansing. I really dont mean it like that though!)
All school buses for 11 plus will be free from park and ride areas in all cities. That way parents drop their children off at a given park and ride and the bus takes little Johnny or Julie off to school from there. The school day is staggered by school ie. school a in that area is 8-2 school b is 9-3 school c is 10-4. The same with school holidays staggered for any 6 weeks starting from 1st July to 1st September. Again that will reduce pressure on working families.
Cycle to work scheme encouraged to get a tax incentive for a bike or electric bike to reduce congestion even more.
If your partner/ husband/ wife is not working ie bringing up children then you get their 10k tax allowance. Thats right. For all. So if you earn 20k and have a child with a civil partner or married partner then you can pay no tax. No problem. However there will be no more child benefit.
The welfare state is seen as only there for support at times of real need not a career choice.

Now these are just ideas, thoughts and ramblings but I felt it only fair to put them on here.

Well thats it for starters. I dont mind paying a little more tax if we as a country have a roadmap that delivers this lot.

 

[thehistorymakers]

We also have people on this forum who seem to delight in the fact that people who hold a different view to themselves will suffer.

I understand that people on this forum suffer. I understand that people fear for the future. I don"t understand people wanting Scotland to leave the UK as a punishment for Brexit winning the referendum, especially when they are English.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Wow - there is a LOT there to take in Cyber. I really want to get back to you on the issues here but they will take some thinking time! Please be patient. Certainly some very interesting stuff in there.

 

[So Long Architect]

I'm not really sure why 'out means out', surely you have to negotiate what is the best exit for the UK and hard exit certainly won't be. Surely, hard exit will be close borders and no free market, but neither of those would be good short term or long term?

Well, you won't find me disagreeing. Now we've been dumb enough to pull that particular trigger we should be doing everything possible to get the best deal. My glorious leader Mr Tusk seems to be saying that we won't be able to have a pic'n'mx arrangement with his club that we don't want to be a part of anymore - which is nothing that wasn't said before the referendum. Those who argued and continue to argue for a "hard" Brexit and have made no bones about the fact that "out means out" shouldn't really be surprised that the EU wants to take its ball home.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Well, you won't find me disagreeing. Now we've been dumb enough to pull that particular trigger we should be doing everything possible to get the best deal. My glorious leader Mr Tusk seems to be saying that we won't be able to have a pic'n'mx arrangement with his club that we don't want to be a part of anymore - which is nothing that wasn't said before the referendum. Those who argued and continue to argue for a "hard" Brexit and have made no bones about the fact that "out means out" shouldn't really be surprised that the EU wants to take its ball home.

there is a difference between taking your bat and ball home and cutting your nose off to spite your face. Both sides cant be seen to start from a soft point. Both sides will have this pissing contest as a prelude. Ultimately money and trade will decide. If it makes money then you are likely to get it agreed as its the financiers that back the politicians. The EU cant be seen to give Britain an easy time straight off with significant voters in other countries itching for a referendum of their own. There will now be a 6 month planning pause before article 50 is triggered. Then both sides will spend two years doing very good swan impressions ( calm above water panicked underneath) while confirming what brexit actually looks like. From my post above you can see that I also want Britain to be working on what it wants to look like regardless of what brexit delivers.