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REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

Deutsch Wolf said:
By the way, if any Brexiteers find any of this unreasonable, feel free to chime in. Though it would be a sad state of affairs if someone fundamentally opposed to them were coming up with their own answers to their own problem. Faintly embarrassing really.
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You know i will always try to be up to your challenge dw even ifbtue answer from me is i dont know yet. That way we stimulate debate.
That's not unreasonable. I would agree as a way forwards . If we can secure a sensible trade agreement with single market access I would agree to that to.
I am hopeful that many of the EU benefits will be available to us post brexit without the cost and restrictions of the EU. Time will tell
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
As a Scotland-based aside - if Sturgeon could organise a referendum to occur before the Article 50 button is pressed next spring some time and got the result she desires and expects, presumably Scotland actually wouldn't go to the back of the queue for entry. It would be a country already in the EU voting to stay in.

(Obviously, this doesn't surmount the other obstacles, not least of which is the currency issue. I am just asking how that might work on the one point above)
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No the EU has already pissed on this
 
No - they haven't. They have pissed on Scotland coming back in. Not staying in. I reckon that is where Nicola Sturgeon is coming from. Personally, I agree with you that it is unlikely that the EU will play but I wondered what people thought.

I also note your post above about the sensible trade agreement with single market access. This to me is the absolute KEY point in any Brexit negotiations. I wonder where the red lines are? If the EU say you can have such a single market access but ONLY if EU worker movement is allowed, will that be a red line that the Brexit negotiators will not cross? What sweeteners to that deal do you think we could offer to try and get it over the line?
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
No - they haven't. They have pissed on Scotland coming back in. Not staying in. I reckon that is where Nicola Sturgeon is coming from. Personally, I agree with you that it is unlikely that the EU will play but I wondered what people thought.

I also note your post above about the sensible trade agreement with single market access. This to me is the absolute KEY point in any Brexit negotiations. I wonder where the red lines are? If the EU say you can have such a single market access but ONLY if EU worker movement is allowed, will that be a red line that the Brexit negotiators will not cross? What sweeteners to that deal do you think we could offer to try and get it over the line?
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Unlike many brexiters immigration was not high on my agenda providing the person was emp!oved. Its benefit's cheats that I have always been against. I would allow movement with visa provided you had employment. Visa would be really simple if you had a job. The quid quo pro would be access to the single market. That way any bull shit about economic migrants living off the state is kicked into touch and the value of working immigrants can be highlighted. I have no problem at all with working Free movement
 
Interesting. I quite like that idea. It would need some form of exemption for the movement of students I guess...
 
Cyber-_-man said:
Unlike many brexiters immigration was not high on my agenda providing the person was emp!oved. Its benefit's cheats that I have always been against. I would allow movement with visa provided you had employment. Visa would be really simple if you had a job. The quid quo pro would be access to the single market. That way any bull $#@! about economic migrants living off the state is kicked into touch and the value of working immigrants can be highlighted. I have no problem at all with working Free movement
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...es-bill-to-stop-eu-migrants-claiming-benefits

While still in the EU...
 
I would like to see an anonymous poll here, for and against brexit..
 
That would have to be mutual as plenty of our students go to the Sorbonne and things like that. It could be negotiated I guess. I am still doubtful, tbh Cyber. I would be lying if I didn't say that. But your idea there is far better than most things I am hearing from the heads of hard brexit at the moment.
 
Paddingtonwolf said:
I'm not sure what that would prove really.
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It would be mildy interesting to see what the % change was compared to the pre-referendum poll. Clearly the gap between leave and remain wouldn't be representative of real life, but the gap change would potentially
 
just a suggestion, Im a bit curious about it thats all
 
If we voted today I would guess 80/20 in favour of remain. As a brexiter I am disappointed at the lack of a plan and a lack of vision and leadership. I am however still in the brexit camp as I truly believe the EU in its current format is unpalatable to the majority of the uk. That said I see no reasons why we cannot compromise. Nobody realised the referendum would be so divisive. Knowing what I know now there have to be some compromises to deliver brexit. Working freedom of movement is one I can go with. Access to the single market is beneficial so I would negotiate to keep it. I am not concerned re the pound as its yin yang medium to long term
 
Cyber is a decent guy, we don't always agree but mostly we can discuss things properly. I don't think the majority of people who voted Leave are in that bracket.
 
Probably gone past this point now, but what would be the process for Scotland to join the EU?
 
They leave the UK (Lord alone knows how long that will take), they then apply to join the EU. We're talking 7-8 years down the line, easily.
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
Cyber is a decent guy, we don't always agree but mostly we can discuss things properly. I don't think the majority of people who voted Leave are in that bracket.
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Thanks DW. Likewise but that's what debating different points us all about.
 
We have both shouted at each other over Brexit but mostly in a reasonable fashion I hope! I don't agree with Cyber, I don't like the basic tenets of the idea. However I respect his right to that view and I am happy to debate, even if we get gnarly at times.
 
Whilst in the UK, I spoke to 4 people who voted remain who would now say they would vote to leave. I never spoke to one person, who had voted to leave who would now want to stay. They were all Conservative voters who were divided between their own financial position and not generally being in love with the EU in the first place.
 
Very interesting , now start a poll!
 
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