REFERENDUM RESULTS AND DISCUSSION THREAD

[Deleted Cyber]

I don't believe I called you anything. And I'm not sure you understand the meaning of irony with this latest diatribe of crap.

Go read your own post again.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

I see Cyber is peddling his PR angle again, even though on numerous occasions it has been pointed out that the PR which was being offered would have had a negligible difference to any GE result. In fact it is debatable as to whether AV is proportional representation at all, which is why I for one who would like to see a representative Parliament and am in favour of PR didn't vote in favour of what was being offered. I also fail to see the parallel being drawn between PR and a referendum with only two options.

Yes I agree. However because voters were so apathetic with the options and turnout true PR never got a look in. AV was still better than fbtp. However the research shows altanative voting for the latest election would have 22 fewer toriues 10 fewer labour and 32 more liberals. Given they were in coalition before I think that makes quite a difference. Certainly dents the Tory majority . Maybe even wipes it out?
Yes this thread has regressed. I am sick of being blamed for ruining a country before it has been ruined! I was always a moderate brexiter yet being called xenophobic fascist racist just by association is a bit distasteful. Hence the regression.

 

[SLA]

Politics and discussion don't cease just because one side wins a vote or even lots of votes. Opposing views are still legitimate.

Would be nice if some if the more intelligent supporters of the right wing parties would actually engage with the debate rather than simply resort to "our gang's bigger than yours, you lost so suck it up and anyway you all smell" (copyright Frank)

You're under no obligation to, obviously but it would stop you looking like a complete bunch of imbecilic arsehats.

 

[Johnny75]

Go read your own post again.

No cupcake, I suggest you learn to read. Can you point out where I called you anything?

Your posts last night are nothing short of embarrassing for a former police officer turned wedding DJ.

 

[Johnny75]

Politics and discussion don't cease just because one side wins a vote or even lots of votes. Opposing views are still legitimate.

Would be nice if some if the more intelligent supporters of the right wing parties would actually engage with the debate rather than simply resort to "our gang's bigger than yours, you lost so suck it up and anyway you all smell" (copyright Frank)

You're under no obligation to, obviously but it would stop you looking like a complete bunch of imbecilic arsehats.

Party allegiance of the main parties (I do not include the protest party that is UKIP) had nothing to do with Brexit and we should nip this in the bud as people from left and right voted either way (I think there were some who were out voters on political principal from left and right wing on here IIRC). The question was IN or OUT of Europe and, as you point out, the debate doesn't stop after a vote.

TSB sums it up perfectly for me and nobody on here that did want out had a plan either, it was all 'we'll win the vote and sort it out afterwards'. Well it's now afterwards and there's still no plan. Bra- fucking -vo.

 

[SLA]

Party allegiance of the main parties (I do not include the protest party that is UKIP) had nothing to do with Brexit and we should nip this in the bud. The question was IN or OUT of Europe and, as you point out, the debate doesn't stop after a vote.

TSB sums it up perfectly for me and nobody on here that did want out had a plan either, it was all 'we'll win the vote and sort it out afterwards'. Well it's now afterwards and there's still no plan. Bra- $#@!ing -vo.

OK, I'll rephrase - it would be nice if supporters of Brexit engaged.

Though the point could just as easily be made on the Theresa thread.

 

[Johnny75]

OK, I'll rephrase - it would be nice if supporters of Brexit engaged.

Though the point could just as easily be made on the Theresa thread.

Yep, it really would be rather than the crap they've been spouting.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I was a conservative voter. I voted remain. I can't see my self voting conservative again as I feel hugely let down by the whole referendum.

As to the way forward, the 48% would be well represented by the remain politicians washing their hands of it and letting the leave jokers crack on.

 

[Tony Towner]

Yes I agree. However because voters were so apathetic with the options and turnout true PR never got a look in. AV was still better than fbtp. However the research shows altanative voting for the latest election would have 22 fewer toriues 10 fewer labour and 32 more liberals. Given they were in coalition before I think that makes quite a difference. Certainly dents the Tory majority . Maybe even wipes it out?
Yes this thread has regressed. I am sick of being blamed for ruining a country before it has been ruined! I was always a moderate brexiter yet being called xenophobic fascist racist just by association is a bit distasteful. Hence the regression.

That's not what YouGov and the Electoral Reform society say. The Tory majority would have actually increased under AV. You bring this up time and again and it's bollocks.

 

[visage]

We're now in the post-fact era though...

 

[Dinowolf]

Yes I agree. However because voters were so apathetic with the options and turnout true PR never got a look in. AV was still better than fbtp. However the research shows altanative voting for the latest election would have 22 fewer toriues 10 fewer labour and 32 more liberals. Given they were in coalition before I think that makes quite a difference. Certainly dents the Tory majority . Maybe even wipes it out?
Yes this thread has regressed. I am sick of being blamed for ruining a country before it has been ruined! I was always a moderate brexiter yet being called xenophobic fascist racist just by association is a bit distasteful. Hence the regression.

Good luck having a reasoned debate on here mate. I admire your perseverance.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Seriously? The only debate I see is "you lost - live with it"

 

[Doctor Doog]

We're now in the post-fact era though...

I think the post-truth era is a better description

 

[Dinowolf]

Seriously? The only debate I see is "you lost - live with it"

Isn't this thread about the referendum result?

Some of the nasty comments made on here are totally unnecessary and not part of reasoned debate.

The result was known on June 24th and people have been 'discussing' their reaction to it ever since, and have now regressed to just insulting remarks about why others voted the way they did. Time to close this thread IMO.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Good luck having a reasoned debate on here mate. I admire your perseverance.

I did try to begin with. I put my views for a plan. But the same people keep spouting the same ageist crap saying how the over 50s screwed the country and then tarring all brexciters with tghye same xenophobic fascist brush. It just got tiresome. I voted out. About 3 days after I put my ideas for next steps. The complaining makes it feel like ground hog day so much so I have been repeating myself.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Seriously? The only debate I see is "you lost - live with it"

This last couple of points yes. Before then I tried a hell of a lot harder to be conciliatory than the majority of remain voters on here did. This thread has become more and more toxic. There was no plan. There could be no real plan. You don't know what you don't know. It was a shock to even the most ardent brexiter. Re hashing it and blaming the xenophobic tendencies of those who voted brexit is a convenient hook.
There are so many reasons why we are where we are. Tony Towner is right to correct me with av above PR would have delivered as significantly different result not av.However under av a lot of voters would have voted more tactically so the result may have changed. Johnny75 is wrong to call my posts embarrassing just because he does not agree. His posts construed that I was a xenerphobic areshole and should stickmy post up my arse while farting jeruselam. I tried but it sounded more like keep the red flag flying. That is johnny75 confrontational posting style. DW gets the hump too. His toys and pram part company with the post saying leave the mess to all those who voted for it . Again, in reality that doesnt help. I will happily engage in debate on here if we move forward and accept we are where we are for a multitude of reasons. My commitment to that debate is not to post such an exasperated post as I did last night. I had been poked with the racsit xenophobic stick once too often. I will give opinions and ideas and I do accept when I am wrong and openly acknoweledge it.

 

[Tony Towner]

I can only speak for myself, but the most frustrating point for me is that what is happening to the £ now was totally predictable as was the reaction of other European Leaders. Project fear is becoming project reality and the country has committed economic suicide.

It's not any longer about who won or lost the referendum it's about the state of our current and future economy and a Government who appears to not know what to do about it or what it's realistic aims are.

 

[Johnny75]

This last couple of points yes. Before then I tried a hell of a lot harder to be conciliatory than the majority of remain voters on here did. This thread has become more and more toxic. There was no plan. There could be no real plan. You don't know what you don't know. It was a shock to even the most ardent brexiter. Re hashing it and blaming the xenophobic tendencies of those who voted brexit is a convenient hook.
There are so many reasons why we are where we are. Tony Towner is right to correct me with av above PR would have delivered as significantly different result not av.However under av a lot of voters would have voted more tactically so the result may have changed. Johnny75 is wrong to call my posts embarrassing just because he does not agree. His posts construed that I was a xenerphobic areshole and should stickmy post up my arse while farting jeruselam. I tried but it sounded more like keep the red flag flying. That is johnny75 confrontational posting style. DW gets the hump too. His toys and pram part company with the post saying leave the mess to all those who voted for it . Again, in reality that doesnt help. I will happily engage in debate on here if we move forward and accept we are where we are for a multitude of reasons. My commitment to that debate is not to post such an exasperated post as I did last night. I had been poked with the racsit xenophobic stick once too often. I will give opinions and ideas and I do accept when I am wrong and openly acknoweledge it.

What a load of crap. Go back and read your post Nando commented on. Telling people to suck it up brought the ire you're complaining about. You deserved everything you got.

Tell me, how much business have you ever done with Europe? And why will we be better off now trade agreements have been more or less ruled out by other Euro leaders? And you telling us they need us isn't proof of this. Some actual figures and ideas would be a good start.

How do we increase trade with Anerica now we are at the back of the queue? And selling to China isn't going to happen anytime soon due to them being completely self-sustainable. How do we improve our economy?

And what to you do with current immigrants?

 

[Tredman]

Think this is a bit harsh on cyber here, he has always been quite straight forward and honest with his views and opinions, I've never got the feeling that xenophobia was behind them. However, it is a massive part of the reasoning behind other members of the 52%.

Xenophobia was whipped up by the media to get the result Murdoch and friends wanted - without the shameful anti-immigrant scaremongering leave would have lost easily. It is a shame, though, that Cyber-Man and others with better motives are lumped in with them.

 

[leedswolf]

The rhetoric this week concerning 'Brexit' reminds me of the phrase 'Be careful what you wish for'. I wouldn't question the referendum result. I do question the outcome. However I shall grin and bare it.

Actually, I will probably fuck off elsewhere. I don't want to reside in a xenophobic isolationist country. Sad, as I have been happy living here for 62 years. Enjoy.