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****POLL NOW IN OP****Who do you want next?

Del Woppio said:
Just 'going back' to the 18/19 style was never going to be an option - after two years, you could see we'd been found out to a large degree. The only way to improve but keep the same style is to improve the players doing it, which we didn't. We had to try and change style.
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Which is where it went wrong. Recruitment. Absolutely nothing wrong with counter attacking football. It's been used in the PL for decades with a lot of success.
 
redvictor said:
Which is where it went wrong. Recruitment. Absolutely nothing wrong with counter attacking football. It's been used in the PL for decades with a lot of success.
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Exclusively? By who?
 
Del Woppio said:
Just 'going back' to the 18/19 style was never going to be an option - after two years, you could see we'd been found out to a large degree. The only way to improve but keep the same style is to improve the players doing it, which we didn't. We had to try and change style.
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This is bang on. I said when Doherty was sold that last season he’d been found out, he didn’t get the space to run into like the season before so Coady and Neves didn’t have that outlet. Doherty couldn’t change his game so Nuno went for Semedo (who in my eyes is a massive upgrade, people’s mileage may vary). We were never going to get that space back so a different type of player was needed and we got one, and still think Semedo’s game would be even better if he didn’t have Traore in front of him.

Personally I don’t think the recruitment was that bad, but when you have to scrap any new style or system and wing it from November onwards it’s pretty hard to but the best laid plans in place.
 
Are you honestly comparing the styles of Manchester United's dominant team(s) to how we've been playing for the last few years? Really?

People had figured out how to stop our long diagonal, and we'd never really adapted to that
 
Del Woppio said:
Are you honestly comparing the styles of Manchester United's dominant team(s) to how we've been playing for the last few years? Really?

People had figured out how to stop our long diagonal, and we'd never really adapted to that
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Nope. You asked me who used counter attacking football. I put up 3 examples who used/use it. Is it hard to comprehend?
 
You gave those examples after I'd asked 'exclusively' - as in, they exclusively used counter attacking football. It's a nonsense comparison, because it's not true
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
Assuming they were a professional gardener and I am definitely not one, I'd assume they knew what they were doing.

I don't go telling the British Gas engineer what to do if my boiler breaks.
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No but if you told him you wanted a combi boiler fitted that gave you instant hot water and he stashed a heat only boiler in your airing cupboard you'd be pretty pissed off and want someone else to do the job...
 
redvictor said:
Nope. You asked me who used counter attacking football. I put up 3 examples who used/use it. Is it hard to comprehend?
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The way we played counter attacking football had a shelf life though and it was never going to be sustainable, i've been saying that for well over a year. We sat too deep at times, we didn't attack with enough players, we gave too much space in central areas, we relied on Jimenez being almost super human and on magic from the wide players to create chances. We also struggled to dominate against teams who didn't let us counter and never looked like being able to do so consistently.

You're right there's nothing wrong with counter attacking football and it worked for us for 2 years but you could see that it needed to change and Nuno has struggled to do that. Even if he had tweaked how and when we counter it could have worked but that hasn't happened. I still hoped he would be able to adapt and do what i think was needed but i was never sure he could and it seems Fosun weren't either.
 
Del Woppio said:
You gave those examples after I'd asked 'exclusively' - as in, they exclusively used counter attacking football. It's a nonsense comparison, because it's not true
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OK coach, you know best...
 
redvictor said:
OK coach, you know best...
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Well, I know that the way Manchester United utilised the counter attack, amongst other methods, is completely different to it being our plans A, B and C, and that we were incapable of adapting effectively. It's not really arguable tbf
 
slink said:
The way we played counter attacking football had a shelf life though and it was never going to be sustainable, i've been saying that for well over a year. We sat too deep at times, we didn't attack with enough players, we gave too much space in central areas, we relied on Jimenez being almost super human and on magic from the wide players to create chances. We also struggled to dominate against teams who didn't let us counter and never looked like being able to do so consistently.

You're right there's nothing wrong with counter attacking football and it worked for us for 2 years but you could see that it needed to change and Nuno has struggled to do that. Even if he had tweaked how and when we counter it could have worked but that hasn't happened. I still hoped he would be able to adapt and do what i think was needed but i was never sure he could and it seems Fosun weren't either.
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You have to have the players to do it, and it's never done all the time. I think the problem has been a combination of manager and recruitment, but all of it is moot now. We just have to see what happens in the next few weeks and hope our recruitment is better than the last window.
 
NicholasG1973 said:
Leicester?

When they won the Premier League title?
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Yep, and then they got found out and regressed, and the manager got sacked. That's the point - you can't just do the same thing forever and not expect the opposition to figure out how to stop it.
 
counter attacking is fine, IF you also can switch styles against lesser teams and dominate possession and create chances from that too..not just exclusively counter attacking play..you need to be able and have the skill/tactics/knowledge of both...merge
 
Del Woppio said:
Yep, and then they got found out and regressed, and the manager got sacked. That's the point - you can't just do the same thing forever and not expect the opposition to figure out how to stop it.
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Sorry, that wasn’t the question I thought you asked us.......
 
redvictor said:
You have to have the players to do it, and it's never done all the time. I think the problem has been a combination of manager and recruitment, but all of it is moot now. We just have to see what happens in the next few weeks and hope our recruitment is better than the last window.
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Of course you need to have the players to do it and i think we've got players in this squad to have done better this season both in terms of position finished and quality of football played. Some would disagree with that and i can see that point too.
 
NicholasG1973 said:
Sorry, that wasn’t the question I thought you asked us.......
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You missed the bit earlier where I'd said failing was in using it exclusively over a sustained period and then getting found out. Then somebody went all weird, said coach a lot, and missed the point.
 
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