Man City 4-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[YoungWolf]

but Wolves expect their attacking players to be some sort of super-human specimens that can do the job of 2-3 players in one go, he isn't that man.

Yep, and the fact we have signed him and think he is worth developing within this team also suggests we know we have to come away from that approach. I think Nuno saw that with the 4231 too, how a ten AND two wide players allowed us to be more fluid, we've just rarely had the chance to go at it properly as this squad is so bottom heavy that a couple of injuries to key players (like Boly and Podence) mean it's hard to play with that system.

 

[Kenny]

What’s frustrating is we went out with the tactic to defend the edge of our box and that’s it. You can’t do that against a team as good as City. They’re just too good and will get through you some how - it took them 14 minutes.

Exactly how we did it last season. We even had Traore playing in defence until we made subs in the 2nd and pushed him up front.
Anyone shocked at how we set up tonight has a short memory.

One of the biggest differences this year though was how unreal City are without the ball. A stupidly good press and we couldn't cope and got stuck in our own half and terrified to break the lines when we did get the ball.

 

[YoungWolf]

Exactly how we did it last season. We even had Traore playing in defence.
Anyone shocked at how we set up tonight has a short memory.

One of the biggest differences this year though was how unreal City are without the ball. A stupidly good press and we couldn't cope and got stuck in our own half and terrified to break the lines when we did get the ball.

Yep, and the only way we got into this game was through some Rodri mistakes really, a bit like last year where he was very exposed. But they've found the way to protect him better and they go back to looking invincible again. It's so hard to get past their counter-press but at times we did find a way.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

In bold. But...... Otasowie is our saviour?

I did not say that about Dendonker, nor have I ever said Otasowie is our saviour.
Otasowie should not start, and most definately should not have played today

 

[Paul]

When we did our usual pass back to Coady routine, how fast did they sprint out to press ?

 

[The Bion]

It sounds like some people would've been content with us forfeiting and taking the 3-0, such was the inevitability of the result?

There are ways to lose against a superior opponent. Show some fight, have a go, however you want to phrase it. Even West Ham managed that.

I'll call back, again, to the game against Liverpool at home last season - they weren't as dominant as City are at the moment, and we were better than we are now, but it wasn't *that* dissimilar. And that was night and day against tonight in terms of attitude, performance, etc. For 10-15 we tried and didn't look out of place at all - lacking some quality, sure, but not grimly trying to hold for dear life. So I'm not sure I can agree that we had zero chance to begun with.

For a long time this team was more than the sum of its parts, I don't think it has been for a while now though. They have done well to turn around what was turning into an alarming slump, but the root causes might still be there.

I just hope this doesn't trigger another spiral, because towards the end was reminiscent of the game against Liverpool from earlier this season, when even Nuno said they stopped trying. That can't keep happening. And we can't keep sleepwalking through 60 minutes every game.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

But the fact those spells exist point, and we are inconsistent points to the fact that something is going on there. I don't think we are physically capable in games like this to do it for 90 minutes regardless, not this season with everything going on.

If anyone is expecting us to go full throttle for 90 minutes in games they are going to be disappointed. I just want to see the process, but it won't be smooth (and it hasn't!)

Going from the super passive, low energy system to a high pressing, high energy system is going to take time but people have spent the last 3 years rimming the Wolves fitness/medical team so you'd like to think they'd be capable of whipping them into a slightly better shape over the course of a season where they could manage it for more than 10-15 minute isolated spells. You'd also think it would be more useful to attempt that more assertive stance earlier in games, trying to catch your opponents cold and get the advantage early on so you're in a position to control the game later on when you need to preserve more energy? Wolves seem to do the opposite, start in such a passive manner and allow the opposition to get that foothold then they've little choice but to step up to a more energetic approach as they're nearly always chasing the game.

There does at times seem to be an almost arrogant, perhaps slightly dogmatic, thinking that they can pick and choose their moments to play and just render the rest of the game null and void with an overtly defensive display but in practice you've got another team with their own ideas and invariably they tend to spoil your plans.

 

[redvictor]

We just tried to contain. Pure and simple, Get to 60 minutes, have our spell of the game where we look bright and threatening and play a bit higher up. In many ways, a typical Nuno approach to a game where the opposition are so far superior individually (although probably a bit deeper than usual due to not having Boly, and a kid at right back).

I've seen enough in recent games (and even for a bit in this game) to see where we are trying to play a bit higher, win the ball back a bit earlier. It's not going to be a drastic change though, we aren't going to become Leipzig all of a sudden for example.

The way we played before scoring against Leeds is a good idea of where are trying to go IMO, and how we tried to play against Southampton, force longer kicks, play quickly into the forwards feet on the floor, and try to get more bodies forward. Whether we get it or not is down to Nuno because if we are playing as poorly as we have this season come the start of next season questions will rightly be asked.

We need Raul back desperately to have more up front. If you look at the Man City game last year everything started through Raul. He's the focus and the player that starts everything. The game tonight showed me how much we miss him up there. It also shows how far away from being a "top 4" side we actually are this season.
Hopefully we can just get through this season and reset for next. Get some of those players in we've been discussing, Raul will be back and we should be a different team. Maybe...

 

[redvictor]

I did not say that about Dendonker, nor have I ever said Otasowie is our saviour.
Otasowie should not start, and most definately should not have played today

I know you didn't on both counts. Dire Wolf said about the latter, so i was just quoting his words. The former has kept being brought up that why aren't we starting him (not by you). The reason was evident tonight in approx 1 minute of him coming on.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Which is fine for him, but not for a team playing the against one of the best team’s the world has ever seen - literally being lauded for occupying space.

Which, again, is better than many of his more experienced and physically capable peers managed.

 

[Wolvensam]

We need Raul back desperately to have more up front. If you look at the Man City game last year everything started through Raul. He's the focus and the player that starts everything. The game tonight showed me how much we miss him up there. It also shows how far away from being a "top 4" side we actually are this season.
Hopefully we can just get through this season and reset for next. Get some of those players in we've been discussing, Raul will be back and we should be a different team. Maybe...

We are years away from being a top 6 side, let alone top 4.

 

[Premier Quality]

We are years away from being a top 6 side, let alone top 4.

I don’t think it’s beyond the realms of possibility if we get our recruitment right this summer.

 

[redvictor]

We are years away from being a top 6 side, let alone top 4.

Right this minute yes. But top six is a couple of players away, and the team learning to play a different system.

 

[The Bion]

Not making excuses, but I think us being slow starters and only sustaining attacks for 20-30 minutes at a time is absolutely down to fitness.

Think it pretty much has to be at this point. Between trying to keep them going through last season and then the reduced time off / preseason this they probably haven't had the chance to 'reprogram' the players.

Granted I'm no sports scientist so that could be cobblers but it makes at least a bit of sense. Be worried if it wasn't the case, in all honesty.

 

[Johnny75]

Just to mention Coady tonight, ignoring the goal, I thought he defended really well tonight - he was good in the air, and defended well on the ground too. There is hope for him as a centre back I think.

I genuinely have no idea what you were watching as for 45 minutes he was one of the worst players in the pitch.

Couldn't pass, on the wrong side of defenders, hid at least twice when city were attacking and become Dave Edwards pointy man for 10 minutes.

He was terrible until he scored and then he became Conor Coady again and remembered he was a footballer.

 

[Tony Towner]

Exactly how we did it last season. We even had Traore playing in defence until we made subs in the 2nd and pushed him up front.
Anyone shocked at how we set up tonight has a short memory.

One of the biggest differences this year though was how unreal City are without the ball. A stupidly good press and we couldn't cope and got stuck in our own half and terrified to break the lines when we did get the ball.

It was the same as the home game this season, but not the previous 2 years. Yes we've always put men behind the ball and challenged them to break us down, but in the past we've been more aggressive in closing down space, holding shape and moving as a unit. This season it's just been sit deep, string men across the box and hope for the best. Leading to 2 first halves of being taken apart

 

[slink]

We just tried to contain. Pure and simple, Get to 60 minutes, have our spell of the game where we look bright and threatening and play a bit higher up. In many ways, a typical Nuno approach to a game where the opposition are so far superior individually (although probably a bit deeper than usual due to not having Boly, and a kid at right back).

I've seen enough in recent games (and even for a bit in this game) to see where we are trying to play a bit higher, win the ball back a bit earlier. It's not going to be a drastic change though, we aren't going to become Leipzig all of a sudden for example.

The way we played before scoring against Leeds is a good idea of where are trying to go IMO, and how we tried to play against Southampton, force longer kicks, play quickly into the forwards feet on the floor, and try to get more bodies forward. Whether we get it or not is down to Nuno because if we are playing as poorly as we have this season come the start of next season questions will rightly be asked.

Oh i know that's what we did but surely you have to try to attack, i don't think we had a plan to do try and get at them at all. I find that extremely strange.

Obviously there's been times in recent games where we've pressed higher, looked to get on the front foot, used inside forwards and pushed a midfielder on but then you have 75 minutes of the Newcastle game for example and that genuinely worries me. I really want us to see more of the improvement this season but if we have to do what Everton did i can take that as long as we get good performances early on next season.

 

[Wolvensam]

Think it pretty much has to be at this point. Between trying to keep them going through last season and then the reduced time off / preseason this they probably haven't had the chance to 'reprogram' the players.

Granted I'm no sports scientist so that could be cobblers but it makes at least a bit of sense. Be worried if it wasn't the case, in all honesty.

We went full tilt in the Europa and Premier League last season and have had no chance to reset this. How we've played this season is an anomaly really.

 

[Johnny75]

I don’t think it’s beyond the realms of possibility if we get our recruitment right this summer.

Not just recruitment, it's mentality. I think we've gone backwards since that Soton 2nd half.

Villa will tell us more of what Nuno wanted to do with the squad rather than tonight.

 

[GLASGOWOLF]

We are years away from being a top 6 side, let alone top 4.

I dont think we are that far from top 6.
Or even 4th, we are a mile away from top 2.