Man City 4-1 Wolves: Verdict Thread

[Premier Quality]

Not just recruitment, it's mentality. I think we've gone backwards since that Soton 2nd half.

Villa will tell us more of what Nuno wanted to do with the squad rather than tonight.

So whilst that’s true, mentality is the key to everything anyway.

If we get the quality at centre back and centre mid, along with Raul back, and now the squad depth is stronger, then it’s entirely down to Nuno and getting the players to play well consistently.

no excuses then because the squad should be good enough to really push.

 

[YoungWolf]

Going from the super passive, low energy system to a high pressing, high energy system is going to take time but people have spent the last 3 years rimming the Wolves fitness/medical team so you'd like to think they'd be capable of whipping them into a slightly better shape over the course of a season where they could manage it for more than 10-15 minute isolated spells. You'd also think it would be more useful to attempt that more assertive stance earlier in games, trying to catch your opponents cold and get the advantage early on so you're in a position to control the game later on when you need to preserve more energy? Wolves seem to do the opposite, start in such a passive manner and allow the opposition to get that foothold then they've little choice but to step up to a more energetic approach as they're nearly always chasing the game.

There does at times seem to be an almost arrogant, perhaps slightly dogmatic, thinking that they can pick and choose their moments to play and just render the rest of the game null and void with an overtly defensive display but in practice you've got another team with their own ideas and invariably they tend to spoil your plans.

That approach where we bide our time, find the moments to dominate has largely worked though. Clearly we want and need to progress from that, but we've picked a tough time to do it for sure (but it might be ideal in a season we may well have struggled in anyway). I don't disagree that it would make more sense to be assertive from the start but Nuno's philosophy/idea/method has obviously been different. All the signings we made definitely point to players that are better suited to a team who has the ball more often, and higher up the pitch with more players to link with. Only Semedo is someone who can drive up the pitch really, the others are more technical players (which Semedo is too).

On the medical/fitness team, I think it is a bit of a lottery on who is going to deal best with a) the pandemic and b) the lack of a pre-season. A pre-season gives you the base to go and compete physically in the way you want to play. The team who have dealt with both those things best are shock horror, City, the team with the most resources. Some have benefitted (West Ham, Villa, Everton, Southampton to start with) from actually having a pre-season too. I can't state enough how having four weeks between the Sevilla and Sheffield United games put as at a disadvantage compared to almost everyone in the division. Most of those players only had two weeks too due to the international fixtures too.

 

[YoungWolf]

Oh i know that's what we did but surely you have to try to attack, i don't think we had a plan to do try and get at them at all. I find that extremely strange.

Obviously there's been times in recent games where we've pressed higher, looked to get on the front foot, used inside forwards and pushed a midfielder on but then you have 75 minutes of the Newcastle game for example and that genuinely worries me. I really want us to see more of the improvement this season but if we have to do what Everton did i can take that as long as we get good performances early on next season.

Nuno's quoted summed it up for me: "Some aspects of the game plan worked, some didn't. Sometimes what you want to do, the other team doesn't let you." For the first half an hour we found it almost impossible to play past their press/counter-press. We actually tried to play out from the back a few times and ended up conceding possession in really dangerous positions. For about 20-25 minutes in the second half we found a way a tiny bit more, and so we were a bit more dangerous.

 

[BeaverWolf]

Ultimately we should have beaten Newcastle away & accepted inevitable defeat tonight?

 

[redvictor]

That approach where we bide our time, find the moments to dominate has largely worked though. Clearly we want and need to progress from that, but we've picked a tough time to do it for sure (but it might be ideal in a season we may well have struggled in anyway). I don't disagree that it would make more sense to be assertive from the start but Nuno's philosophy/idea/method has obviously been different. All the signings we made definitely point to players that are better suited to a team who has the ball more often, and higher up the pitch with more players to link with. Only Semedo is someone who can drive up the pitch really, the others are more technical players (which Semedo is too).

On the medical/fitness team, I think it is a bit of a lottery on who is going to deal best with a) the pandemic and b) the lack of a pre-season. A pre-season gives you the base to go and compete physically in the way you want to play. The team who have dealt with both those things best are shock horror, City, the team with the most resources. Some have benefitted (West Ham, Villa, Everton, Southampton to start with) from actually having a pre-season too. I can't state enough how having four weeks between the Sevilla and Sheffield United games put as at a disadvantage compared to almost everyone in the division. Most of those players only had two weeks too due to the international fixtures too.

You have to add this to it also. The players, staff and manager have been stuck here for months in a shitty British winter. Nuno hasn't seen his family, neither have a lot of the players. Neves still hasn't seen his new born! All this will be sucking the life out of them, and making it really difficult to concentrate on the job in hand. It's a struggle for me to go to work these days, after a sodding year of this shitshow. Sometimes it doesn't matter how much you earn. The job gets you down...

 

[Walnut]

The last 3 goals were down to poor individual mistakes. When you make those mistakes against a side as good as City it's inevitable that they will punish you.

 

[redvictor]

Nuno's quoted summed it up for me: "Some aspects of the game plan worked, some didn't. Sometimes what you want to do, the other team doesn't let you." For the first half an hour we found it almost impossible to play past their press/counter-press. We actually tried to play out from the back a few times and ended up conceding possession in really dangerous positions. For about 20-25 minutes in the second half we found a way a tiny bit more, and so we were a bit more dangerous.

I'm sure it would have been the same if we played Bayern Munich. These teams are just head and shoulders better than us right now. That's pretty much it.

 

[Mild 'n' Scratchins]

City were good, very good, but why were we so afraid of playing football? We have decent players. My view is they're being let down by an ultra defensive outlook to games and, in several cases, not being played in their natural positions. Oh there's also irrational in-game decisions like bringing on OO on when surely a better option would have been a more attack minded player. I mean what's the worse that could have happened? We ship a few more goals...That worked Nuno, worked a treat. We invited City to make attack after attack, which was bound to lead to mistakes and goals. City play football the right way and are worth champions. I hope they win the lot, actually. We're not in their league but we are much better than what Nuno is getting out of the players.

 

[Mild 'n' Scratchins]

Really ??

What do you mean - "really"? FFS you should never, ever go into a game, frightened of the opposition. No matter who you are and who you are playing. Our team are not a bunch of Sunday league players, you know. They're experienced internationals in many cases! It's Nuno's job, any manager's job, to motivate the team to believe they can beat anyone. He clearly is not achieving that and will no doubt point to mistakes for the City goals, when the harsh truth is our approach to games is all wrong. Have a go in a professionally, measured way, utilising the undoubted talents we have at our disposal. But to be frightened of the opposition, no matter who they are, is criminal. Seriously, I'd like to understand where you're coming from with that response?

 

[Mild 'n' Scratchins]

We'd have won with Van Dijk and Fernandes in the side

If only. Seriously, we need to rebuild from the back. A proper, decent CB to play alongside Boly next season. Dendonker, Coady and Saiss have proven this year that they're not a recipe for success, I'm afraid. I would keep Saiss, as a useful squad player but cash-in (!) on Donk and Coady (the latter I'd be sad to see leave of course).

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Against a big six side you need all your best players to turn up and still hope a couple of theirs have an off day. Once again 4 or 5 of ours had shockers. Donk, Hoever, Neto ,Saiss all were dreck. Rui was fantastic for 88 minutes but could do much better with the fourth but it really didn’t matter. Even his head had dropped by then. Otasowie came on and immediately cocked up. In 15 minutes of football this year he has missed a sitter and given a goal away. I would still like to see more of him. That midfield needs more legs. In a boxing analogy it was a flyweight against a heavyweight and the flyweights game plan was do run around the ring hoping not to get hit. Unfortunately he got ragged early on and despite getting one good punch in it was never going to be enough

 

[AndyWolves]

Not one of our players gets into the city team, they made six changes and so were fresher. They are a better team with more rested players.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

That first half isn't acceptable, not against anyone. It was luck rather than judgement that we weren't 5-0 down. You simply cannot show zero intent.

We looked alright in patches in the second half. Delighted for Coady to get his goal. But I can't complain at 4-1, it was a fair reflection of how the game went.

Why can't Adama grasp when you should and shouldn't try to run with the ball? Cost us against Albion, cost us last night. This is not complicated stuff, I can't be having this "that's how he plays" crap. If I drove into a wall every few weeks and said "that's the way I drive" then I don't think I'd be getting very far.

Hopefully the sub that was made indicates that Fabio (who did ok) is now ahead of the awful José. I get why we set up as we did (not that it worked) but we cannot do this strikerless thing, every time we try we haven't got a clue.

Boly back on Saturday with any luck as Dendoncker seriously needs taking out of the firing line. In terrible form and has been for pretty much the whole season, defence or midfield. He isn't at ease there, he even alluded to it in an interview on the official site.

We move on, as per Saturday though I just can't wait for this season to end. We need a reset of some kind.

 

[Tony Towner]

Not one of our players gets into the city team, they made six changes and so were fresher. They are a better team with more rested players.

There's a lot of that around last night and this morning. Does that explain why City should beat us? Absolutely. Does it explain another passive, confidence free first half where a team consisting of 10 internationals showed the opposition too much respect, were unable to express themselves and looked drained of confidence? No.

In a vacuum, I can have all the 21 in a row, £200m on the bench, best team in the league, none of our 11 would get in their side stuff, as it's all true. Conveniently forgets we played Newcastle 3 days earlier with the same mindest though.

 

[Paul]

What do you mean - "really"? FFS you should never, ever go into a game, frightened of the opposition. No matter who you are and who you are playing. Our team are not a bunch of Sunday league players, you know. They're experienced internationals in many cases! It's Nuno's job, any manager's job, to motivate the team to believe they can beat anyone. He clearly is not achieving that and will no doubt point to mistakes for the City goals, when the harsh truth is our approach to games is all wrong. Have a go in a professionally, measured way, utilising the undoubted talents we have at our disposal. But to be frightened of the opposition, no matter who they are, is criminal. Seriously, I'd like to understand where you're coming from with that response?

As posted several posts above, you do remember that is how we set up against them last season, with quite resounding success I might add (FFS )
No one has said we were frightened of the opposition, we often set up in a similar fashion regardless of the opposition, the fact we played a team who up until that point hadn't lost in 20 straight games should have been a factor to be wary of don't you think? What do you think would have happened if we'd have adopted a gung-ho attitude last night 3 or 4 nil down after half an hour and a final score would have had to have been written in letters by the side of the number on the vidiprinter.
The crux of the matter is we are playing sub par, every player out there (apart from Rui ) and we had the unfortunate luck to play one of the best sides in the world who on the night where stunning as I said before their pressing when Coady got the ball was like an Olympic sprint from City's players,3 or 4 players on Neto and Traore when they had the ball, It would have been a joy to watch had it not been us In fact I bet Pep was furious they had 80%+ possession for most of the first half and only 10 shots !

 

[Del Woppio]

He's got to to stop the pragmatism now. We've basically eleven 'pre-pre-season friendlies' left, with plenty of time between them, so please, please don't waste them.

Have a proper think and decide how you want us to play next season, and tell the players to relax, that results don't matter, and to drill the higher line and more aggressive press into them. Look at the players you're unsure about, so you've got a better recruitment plan. Push Neves higher up, keep Traore and Neto inside, put players close to Fabio, see if you can find a central defensive combination that can cope, or at least which individuals might be able to. Give RAN and Vitinha minutes.

We've probably spent hundreds of hours on this board talking about transitioning to a new style, but we've also probably only seen about 2 hours of us trying to do it on the pitch. For fucks sake, the season is dead, a hard earned attritional point/win against anybody doesn't teach you anything, and it doesn't prepare you or the players for anything.

Take that opportunity for fucks sake, give us something interesting to talk about and something to look forward to

 

[Premier Quality]

Yeah, that sums it up perfectly Del.

 

[AndyWolves]

There's a lot of that around last night and this morning. Does that explain why City should beat us? Absolutely. Does it explain another passive, confidence free first half where a team consisting of 10 internationals showed the opposition too much respect, were unable to express themselves and looked drained of confidence? No.

In a vacuum, I can have all the 21 in a row, £200m on the bench, best team in the league, none of our 11 would get in their side stuff, as it's all true. Conveniently forgets we played Newcastle 3 days earlier with the same mindest though.

I think you've answered your own question there. A team without confidence is unlikely to go into any game with the belief they need.

Why would a team who took 30 minutes to get going against a team fighting for their lives look any better against a team who've won 20 games on the trot.

Even with confidence, belief etc I would not expect us to get anything from a team like city.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't think anyone expected anything. Although I do expect us to not behave like Hednesford on their big FA Cup day out.

 

[Deano]

I don't think anyone expected anything. Although I do expect us to not behave like Hednesford on their big FA Cup day out.

100% agree. Said to some mates last night we were playing like a league 2 team who'd drawn one of the big boys in the cup with some of the players we have in the squad there isn't a need to play like it.

Some people seem to be getting confused and think that any criticism of the way we set up and play at times means we think we could have beat City - that's not the case, we would obviously still have lost. You only need to look at the weekend just gone and contrast West Ham's performance against them though - they lost but they had a good go and it was much better to watch than what we are serving up.

Some of the above is obviously confidence related but it's also mentality, it would not surprise me if we kick off against Villa and sit off them passively and make them look like prime Barcelona, we are just too passive and we have moments in games where we look like we are starting to press and try and win the ball back quickly, only to revert to type soon after.

Like you said in an earlier post I can't wait for the season to end as we need to refresh the personnel in the squad and have a rethink in terms of our way of playing and ideas as at the moment this is shit.