Liverpool (A) 29/12 Build-Up & Match Thread

[MARKakaJIM]

According to the PL website Sheff Utd top the table for offsides so there does appear to be some correlation between the number of goals they've lost out on and their general lack of adherence to that rule.

Wolves however were 15th for offsides so so seem more unfortunate but then at least one of Wolves' overturned goals was for handball rather than offside which may balance the numbers a little better.

 

[Paul]

Special mention to Carragher somehow giving TAA MOTM after Vini destroyed him repeatedly. Gently suggest there's no way he should be commentating on Liverpool games.

To be fair he was going to be MOTM before they'd even kicked off, they mentioned his name a dozen times in the first half even though he'd spannered crosses straight out of play !

 

[Norman Deeley]

What's all this Jonny vs the Ball Boy crap this morning? As someone has posted on Twitter, about 15,000 Liverpool 'fans' videoing the game on their phones, but not one seems to have Ballboygate

 

[PuntsWolf]

I can handle the first goal. It was disallowed for hand ball but he didn’t handball it and the referees Whistle didn’t make a difference to the outcome even if it was before it went in (I don’t think it was). We’d also have been livid if the VVD one was against us, there’s no proof it hits his hand. We should have defended a long straight ball better, that ones on us.


As for the equaliser, it’s Just a shambles. By the current laws and implementation its the correct decision, but the laws and implementation are fucking wank. As we all know, they can’t get the freeze positions right either way so there’s always error and the fact it’s based on his toe when even in Robertson’s mind he would have felt he was goalside of Jonny is a shambles.

But changing the judging point doesn’t fix the issue. Whether you change it to head, shoulder knees toes or whatever your still going to have this absurd marginal offsides. Draw a line on the last defender, if he’s not obviously over it then the call stands.

As for the game, we played well. Probably should have got something out of it with the chances but never mind.

 

[Tony Towner]

Take a step back and think about this. We are debating about whether a goal should be disallowed because the ball maybe scraped the underside of a centre halves arm in his own half which was neither a deliberate action nor assisted in him controlling the ball. That's what VAR has brought us to, it's pathetic.

To be fair, the first is exactly the type of decision it was brought into correct. Sorry Booz, I don't see how you can compare it to the Boly one, one hit his arm the other didn't. That doesn't mean that the interpretation of handball isn't horseshit, it is, but the two aren't the same.

As for the offside shite, it's only those that were pro VAR and won't be challenged on it who trot out the offside is offside rubbish. It's clear that this is not what anybody anticipated, the technology isn't good enough to stand them up and it's only those in Stockley Park that get a hard on if they get to rule out a goal who like it.

Like someone else said, I barely watched the second half, what was the point? If we'd have scored I wouldn't have celebrated it, waiting for them to disallow it.

I don't belong to the foil hat brigade, I don't think we are being targeted, I just think we have been unfortunate to be in situations that have cost us. That doesn't mean it's not sucking the life out of the game and my enjoyment of it though.

We've got a least another half a season of this, they can't change it now, it'd be unfair on the teams who have already been shafted, but half the games in this round of fixtures have had goals disallowed for marginal offsides. I've not seen the Sheff Utd one, but the other 4 were all within the margin of error of the technology, against the spirit of the game and damage it. Mike Riley is a bigger twat now than he was as an insipid, kiss ass ref.

 

[Johnny75]

I’ll go back to Everton’s 2nd goal back at the start of the season, we didn’t get the lines or long delay for that when it looked very borderline.
As people have said VAR was bought in for so called clear and obvious errors. Had any of the goals that were chalked off this weekend had been given not one complaint would be made.
As I bang on about the technology isn’t advanced enough to make such minute calls and look at the angle they used is not completely side on.
Simply use the naked eye instead of getting these stupid lines out.

The naked eye isn't reliable. A Spanish university did some research about 15 years ago and proved that close offside decisions weren't reliable and less than 70% of decisions were correct. That's a huge margin.

And Aiki is wrong too with why VAR was bought in. It was brought in because of Thierry Henry's handball mess against Ireland and the fact the referees couldn't see everything.

As Punts has said this should be a really simple system easily implemented and the PGMOL has proved it isn't a fit body to do this. The FA have fucked up letting the PGMOL and the ineffective Mike Riley lead on this when they are not equipped to do it on any level.

 

[Dart wolves]

Offsides should be taken away from VAR and let the referee and linesman deal with it, yes they are going to get some right and some wrong
but over a season it evens its self out .VAR is costing to many goals to be disallowed , i want to see goals not free kicks for offside , and the waiting for a decision is
killing the euphoria !

 

[Johnny75]

Offsides should be taken away from VAR and let the referee and linesman deal with it, yes they are going to get some right and some wrong
but over a season it evens its self out .

This is the kind of rubbish that the anti-var brigade started with. Decisions don't even themselves out, it is a decision in one moment that affects the rest of that particular game, not the next game or the one after that.

 

[Dart wolves]

Offsides should be taken away from VAR and let the referee and linesman deal with it, yes they are going to get some right and some wrong
but over a season it evens its self out .VAR is costing to many goals to be disallowed , i want to see goals not free kicks for offside , and the waiting for a decision is
killing the euphoria !

 

[Johnny75]

Offsides should be taken away from VAR and let the referee and linesman deal with it, yes they are going to get some right and some wrong
but over a season it evens its self out .VAR is costing to many goals to be disallowed , i want to see goals not free kicks for offside , and the waiting for a decision is
killing the euphoria !

That's some double post. Still nonsense.

 

[Tony Towner]

Offsides should be taken away from VAR and let the referee and linesman deal with it, yes they are going to get some right and some wrong
but over a season it evens its self out .VAR is costing to many goals to be disallowed , i want to see goals not free kicks for offside , and the waiting for a decision is
killing the euphoria !

The problem is as soon as you remove it, they'll be an offside the first weekend which is clearly missed. I openly admit I never wanted VAR, but it's here and it's not going to go away so it needs to be significantly improved. We have the technology for offsides so use it with common sense.

You can still have offsides given by VAR. If on a freeze frame he's off you disallow, it'd take 30 seconds. The Cutrone one earlier in the season I can live with, you could see on one still he was off. If you need to get the geometry set out to spend 2-3 minutes to give an inconclusive result then the goal should stand.

The answer isn't what Souness says. Yes less goals will be disallowed, but it'll have the same issues just the lines in a different place.

 

[Aikiwolf]

I'd have no issue with VAR pointing out the Henry handball to a ref, it was obviously a mistake/unseen by the ref. It would have taken seconds.

But we've become a generation of fans that has football bsted a us from all angles, when we watch at home we can see everything and then, after the game, turn on our xbox and replay. This is part of the culture that has driven the desire for VAR, for perceived "fairness". A lack of being able to accept a bad decision is the equivalent of a toddler being unable to accept not being allowed chocolate for breakfast.

The reality is that the quest for correct decisions will rob football of iconic moments (HD of God, had of Henry, Lampards goal, Readings ghost goal - who on earth would remember Watford vs Reading if that hadn't happened?!).

Ultimately the media created a spectacle around poor decisions, leading fans to be outraged by the minutest of decisons against their club, and a decrying of the referees. VAR has been brought in as a direct response to this and it's damaged the game in the quest for "fairness".

Football isn't, and never will be, fair.

 

[Johnny75]

The problem is as soon as you remove it, they'll be an offside the first weekend which is clearly missed. I openly admit I never wanted VAR, but it's here and it's not going to go away so it needs to be significantly improved. We have the technology for offsides so use it with common sense.

You can still have offsides given by VAR. If on a freeze frame he's off you disallow, it'd take 30 seconds. The Cutrone one earlier in the season I can live with, you could see on one still he was off. If you need to get the geometry set out to spend 2-3 minutes to give an inconclusive result then the goal should stand.

The answer isn't what Souness says. Yes less goals will be disallowed, but it'll have the same issues just the lines in a different place.

Souness idea is a better solution and if you give the advantage to the attacking side if it's inconclusive it would take all of 30 seconds. It eliminates the 'lean' which is what happens when you have two bodies moving in opposite directions or one player bigger than another. That's a huge difference in the rule.

It isn't the fault of the tech which is where people keep bleating about, it's the rules and the implementation of them by people who are being too officious and don't know that they're ruining the game.

 

[wordsleywolf]

VAR was 'sold' on the basis of correcting clear and obvious errors. Therefore it was correct to overturn the decision on Liverpool's goal (though if they'd gone back another second they would presumably have disallowed it for VvD handball). There is nothing clear and obvious about the offside in our 'goal'. If you can't see it with the naked eye after a couple of replays then they should let the original decision stand. None of the 4 minutes rolling 2 or 3 frames backwards and forwards drawing lines from armpits and bootlaces.

 

[Johnny75]

I'd have no issue with VAR pointing out the Henry handball to a ref, it was obviously a mistake/unseen by the ref. It would have taken seconds.

But we've become a generation of fans that has football bsted a us from all angles, when we watch at home we can see everything and then, after the game, turn on our xbox and replay. This is part of the culture that has driven the desire for VAR, for perceived "fairness". A lack of being able to accept a bad decision is the equivalent of a toddler being unable to accept not being allowed chocolate for breakfast.

The reality is that the quest for correct decisions will rob football of iconic moments (HD of God, had of Henry, Lampards goal, Readings ghost goal - who on earth would remember Watford vs Reading if that hadn't happened?!).

Ultimately the media created a spectacle around poor decisions, leading fans to be outraged by the minutest of decisons against their club, and a decrying of the referees. VAR has been brought in as a direct response to this and it's damaged the game in the quest for "fairness".

Football isn't, and never will be, fair.

That's a load of fucking bollocks Aiki. Nobody wants to see the hand of God, Lampard's non goal and Thierry Henry's handball goal.

 

[Aikiwolf]

VAR was 'sold' on the basis of correcting clear and obvious errors. Therefore it was correct to overturn the decision on Liverpool's goal (though if they'd gone back another second they would presumably have disallowed it for VvD handball). There is nothing clear and obvious about the offside in our 'goal'. If you can't see it with the naked eye after a couple of replays then they should let the original decision stand. None of the 4 minutes rolling 2 or 3 frames backwards and forwards drawing lines from armpits and bootlaces.

That's how I'd like to see it working. No slow mo, no stupid lines, can you see an error? Yes/no.

Yesterday we'd have had lallana's goal given (I'm not sure on the VVD handball) and Jonny's given.

 

[Aikiwolf]

That's a load of fucking bollocks Aiki. Nobody wants to see the hand of God, Lampard's non goal and Thierry Henry's handball goal.

Well that's clearly wrong isn't it? I've literally just said football is better with those mistakes. So I guess you actually mean that you don't want to see that.

Anyway, we can all agree the current use of VAR hasn't improved the game in any way.

 

[Johnny75]

Well that's clearly wrong isn't it? I've literally just said football is better with those mistakes. So I guess you actually mean that you don't want to see that.

Anyway, we can all agree the current use of VAR hasn't improved the game in any way.

You want to see the hand of God, Lampard's non goal and Henry's handball?

 

[Aikiwolf]

You want to see the hand of God, Lampard's non goal and Henry's handball?

For the third time yes. I like the drama, I like the memories, I like the excitement.

 

[Johnny75]

For the third time yes. I like the drama, I like the memories, I like the excitement.

I find this view ridiculous. How anybody can like blantantly wrong decisions and cheating can't like sport. You may as well go and watch the wrestling.