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Live Match Discussion 2017/18

slink said:
The referee still makes the decision with VAR though. These are referees that aren't good enough anyway so what's the point of having the VAR when a lot of them will stick by the decision they have already made. How about we get our education of referees right and make sure they understand the rules and how to apply them with common sense. Then maybe VAR will be ready.

I don't trust Jon Moss to make correct decisions in real time because he's a poor referee and countless decisions back that up, i wouldn't trust him after he had watched a video replay either.
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So your problem is with the referees not the tech (which is ready and has been for 5 years)?

The point with many of the techs to be introduced is to give a different viewpoint and Jon Moss may have changed his mind having seen it again, we don't know. FWIW I don't think the ref should make the final decision it should be independent/ 4th official as it is in cricket/ rugby.

Were you against Hawkeye being introduced?
 
Embarrassing for Arsenal today, and Wenger got his selection completely wrong. City are going to win the league this season, it’s done, so the FA Cup takes on extra importance for the big sides as a trophy to win. Look at the sides the rest of the big six have put out this weekend.

United – not far from first choice XI, couple of changes.
Liverpool – Coutinho & Salah out with knocks, pretty strong side apart from that
Spurs – Rotated a few at the back, but still a side containing Kane, Lamela, Llorente, Vertonghen, Dembele, Sissoko & Wanyama
City – strong side again, like they have in Caraboa Cup too
Chelsea – Like Spurs, rotated a few but still had a pretty strong side out who, admittedly, put in a poor performance

Arsenal make 9 changes, and a lot of the players they brought in aren’t good enough. Crazy from Wenger.
 
'No Hunger in Paradise' on BT Sport 2 now. Should be a good watch having read Michael Calvin's book.
 
Johnny75 said:
So your problem is with the referees not the tech (which is ready and has been for 5 years)?

The point with many of the techs to be introduced is to give a different viewpoint and Jon Moss may have changed his mind having seen it again, we don't know. FWIW I don't think the ref should make the final decision it should be independent/ 4th official as it is in cricket/ rugby.

Were you against Hawkeye being introduced?
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Like i've said at least 5 times now, if they can get the technology to help referees to get more decisions right and i mean a significant amount of key decisions without disrupting the flow of the game then i'm all for it.
Then you have to add to that the fact that the referees are poor, i didn't really go in to that on the other thread but as i pointed out it was trialed in the confederations cup and the referees got so much wrong still and it's caused problems in Italy although the big incident in the Inter and Lazio game was correctly changed as i pointed out.

You say Jon Moss may have changed his mind having seen the replay but if he doesn't he should never referee again because he quite clearly isn't up to it. it was blatant live and even more so after seeing one replay never mind the 50 it's showed since. What happens when the referee can't make the right decision after seeing the replay? What about the penalty incident? Some think it was, some think it wasn't, the VAR isn't going to stop criticism or talking points it's going to possibly create more.

Hawkeye for me is completely different because it's set to different parameters and is used in a game that isn't a game that necessarily flows. Cricket has a lot of stops and starts and the reviews don't really alter that imo. Hawkeye shows facts in terms of where the ball bounces and near certainty where the ball will continue on it's current path so allows decisions to be made how does VAR give referees facts and certainty about what happened when a decision comes down to interpretation which it can.

We literally could carry this on all day but as i said earlier i'm not against change as long as the flow of the game isn't affected and it will allow a significant amount of big decisions to be correctly called but i don't trust referees or those in charge of referees with this. We can't get referees that make good decisions consistently that shouldn't need VAR so we really should look at that first. For example Jon Moss isn't good enough, he gets more big decisions wrong imo than many referees yet he continues to be able to referee at the highest level, that isn't right.
 
I think having refs in the stands would help also.

I think it's easier to spot things from a distance than it is up close.

The refs in the stand would advise the ref in the middle.

The problem with VAR is even after seeing multiple replays consensus isn't always reached. I do think we should have VAR as it's unrealistic to expect refs to get EVERY decision correct
 
AndyWolves said:
I think having refs in the stands would help also.

I think it's easier to spot things from a distance than it is up close.

The refs in the stand would advise the ref in the middle.

The problem with VAR is even after seeing multiple replays consensus isn't always reached. I do think we should have VAR as it's unrealistic to expect refs to get EVERY decision correct
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I don't disagree with this. I think the VAR should be independent of the ref on the pitch which I understand isn't the case right now. It's clearly a conflict of interest for a ref to review their own decision as they will already have a view and the point of VAR is to have a new view.

I take Slink's point on the refs not being good enough in the first place and I think the PGMOL aren't in a good way right now.
 
That's how it works in cricket and rugby isn't it? On field ref asks for the technological assistance and there's another official in charge of interpreting that data to make or confirm/overrule the initial decision respectively.
 
MARKakaJIM said:
That's how it works in cricket and rugby isn't it? On field ref asks for the technological assistance and there's another official in charge of interpreting that data to make or confirm/overrule the initial decision respectively.
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In cricket most of the referrals are in the hands of the players (well, the captains officially). The umpire will only send it upstairs for run outs, stumpings and disputed catches (ie where it's unclear if the ball has carried, not whether it's unclear if the batsman has hit it).
 
FrankMunro-371 said:
How many of you who constantly complain about referees have actually tried doing the job?
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Bit of a lame argument.

I'm sure you moan about Teresa May plenty. Have you actually tried doing the job?
 
tredman said:
By christ Walcott has gone backwards. Looks terrible for arsenal today.
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I suppose it’s not surprising as he’s barely kicked a ball this season. Think he would be a good signing for a mid table prem team, I saw that Saints want back
 
Didn't see the Forest v Arsenal game live as I don't have BT so I watched MoTD 2 this morning.

Clive Allen appears to have Trevor Francis syndrome - offer absolutely no analysis of the game whatsoever, instead just tell us exactly what we're watching on the screen, just in case our eyes are deceiving us.

"He's hit it with his right foot and it's flown past the keeper."

Cheers, Clive. I'm pleased you're here.
 
State of this crowd at Brighton. Isn't this supposed to be their local derby (of sorts)?
 
Yeah they have a very weird rivalry, not really sure where it stems from though
 
Trips said:
Yeah they have a very weird rivalry, not really sure where it stems from though
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Comes from Mullery and Venables hating each other when they were the respective managers about 40 years ago. Had a public slanging match before it was the done thing, which was a hangover from a dislike of each other from their playing days and it all spiralled from there.
 
It dates back a while, but the real stoking up of it was when Alan Mullery was Brighton manager and El Tel was at Palace.
 
Mullery is on the Saunders scale of stupidity.

Also came up with a sub-Charlie Nicholas level of #banter back in the day:

It was as Brighton & Hove Albion manager in 1977 that Mullery almost single-handedly created a rivalry between the south-coast side and Crystal Palace. A second FA Cup first round replay was won 1-0 by Palace after Brighton controversially missed a re-taken penalty. As a furious Mullery stormed off the pitch, he pulled a handful of change out of his pocket, threw it on the floor and shouted: "That's all you're worth, Crystal Palace."
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Nice to see Sako coming back to the player we all know he can be.
 
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