Let's talk about Nuno....

[AndyWolves]

I was on the Nuno out bus yesterday, but not today.

It's arguable that without the Raul injury we would be a number of places higher in the league (I'm not arguing performances would have been any better) and for me, getting a decent back up for Raul is incredibly difficult for a team like us.

We've had a fair few games where we've missed out by really small margins which would also have an impact on where we'd be in the league.

I'm not disputing that some of our games haven't been very exciting at all but what I do think is if we'd have some more positive results here and there our confidence levels (and maybe performances) would be better.

The fact the consensus is we'd had an awful season and we're comfortable in mid table suggests that things aren't that bad, however, no laurels should be rested upon and we shouldn't assume Raul will fix everything (when Raul returns we will score more goals, I'm certain of that).

With regards to Nuno, and to quote Starship Troopers "Nuno has the job until he dies, or we find someone better".

 

[Johnny75]

In case you haven’t noticed Spurs Chelsea and Arsenal sacked their managers this season and all have done a lot better than us this season.
i think that we have every right to winge about how poor we have played overall this season. We were hardly doing wonders before Rauls injury. I can’t blame it all on a lack of pre season and injuries. Every team had that and some had worse. Man United sit second and they have Ole tax weighing them down! I want Nuno to succeed but yo fo that he needs to learn from his failings this season.

Arsenal haven't sacked their manager this season (unless he's gone in the last hour).

Spurs sacked Mourinho last week and have just lost a cup final so I don't see that as an improvement.

Chelsea I'll give you but it's not even Meatloaf.

 

[prawnking]

I thought it was funny.

You 'laugh' at 75% of people's posts though, tbf

 

[Johnny75]

You 'laugh' at 75% of people's posts though, tbf

Why does that bother you?

 

[AndyWolves]

You 'laugh' at 75% of people's posts though, tbf

I think you're paranoid

 

[AndyWolves]

And are we really comparing ourselves to Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

We finished above Arsenal once so yeah, of course, stupid. That's it forever.

Like we beat Man City twice last season so we should beat them every time now or we have gone backwards, backwards I tell you.

 

[Tom Hark]

And are we really comparing ourselves to Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal?

That is Fosun's stated eventual intention, so it's not really surprising if people cast glances in that direction. We were a lot closer to those clubs last season than this, which is bound to be seen as a regression, whatever the reasons.

 

[prawnking]

We finished above Arsenal once so yeah, of course, stupid. That's it forever.

Like we beat Man City twice last season so we should beat them every time now or we have gone backwards, backwards I tell you.

I agree with you, but let's not pretend that this season we expected to be finishing 12th-15th.

In fact, on the TWF poll most people thought we'd be 5th/6th, with no-one voting for us to be lower than 8th-10th (except one wag who had us going down...)

 

[PuntsWolf]

I was on the Nuno out bus yesterday, but not today.

It's arguable that without the Raul injury we would be a number of places higher in the league (I'm not arguing performances would have been any better) and for me, getting a decent back up for Raul is incredibly difficult for a team like us.

We've had a fair few games where we've missed out by really small margins which would also have an impact on where we'd be in the league.

I'm not disputing that some of our games haven't been very exciting at all but what I do think is if we'd have some more positive results here and there our confidence levels (and maybe performances) would be better.

The fact the consensus is we'd had an awful season and we're comfortable in mid table suggests that things aren't that bad, however, no laurels should be rested upon and we shouldn't assume Raul will fix everything (when Raul returns we will score more goals, I'm certain of that).

With regards to Nuno, and to quote Starship Troopers "Nuno has the job until he dies, or we find someone better".

I’ve never wanted him out. I just don’t have him as untouchable.

Rauls injury is used to paper over a lot of cracks. Players get injured. That’s football. We’ve effectively missed one key player for an extended period of time, other clubs have had it worse than us. But let’s not get caught up on this too much.

We’ve missed out by fine margins, we’ve also gained by fine margins. Fulham (A) (could argue the home game to an extent), both Leeds games, Chelsea (H), Arsenal (H). Works both ways.

My biggest issue is quality of football being poor and results being average. He’s got the benefit of the doubt until 6-10 games next season really. But if we’re on like 4 points after 8 games AND performances are rubbish then I don’t see how he stays on.

 

[AndyWolves]

That is Fosun's stated eventual intention, so it's not really surprising if people cast glances in that direction. We were a lot closer to those clubs last season than this, which is bound to be seen as a regression, whatever the reasons.

I kinda get that, but if you look at our situation from the outside without Wolves glasses on, is it realistic to expect us to compete with these kinds of clubs given the big disparity in resources available? Purely from being in the PL since it was established these clubs have had access to way more resources than we have, and that's before you even factor in how much their owners have been able to invest.

 

[AndyWolves]

I’ve never wanted him out. I just don’t have him as untouchable.

Rauls injury is used to paper over a lot of cracks. Players get injured. That’s football. We’ve effectively missed one key player for an extended period of time, other clubs have had it worse than us. But let’s not get caught up on this too much.

We’ve missed out by fine margins, we’ve also gained by fine margins. Fulham (A) (could argue the home game to an extent), both Leeds games, Chelsea (H), Arsenal (H). Works both ways.

My biggest issue is quality of football being poor and results being average. He’s got the benefit of the doubt until 6-10 games next season really. But if we’re on like 4 points after 8 games AND performances are rubbish then I don’t see how he stays on.

That's fair, the cracks are horrible and glaring, and would still be there. Scoring goals really helps though and would make a huge difference.

Lot's of teams have struggled without their talisman, West Ham with Antonio, Villa with Grealish as two examples.

I think your last sentence is true.

 

[Jinky]

It's a well-trodden path in a manager's life-cycle tbf. First, those that are unhappy at performance levels are entitled/not real fans; then they're reveling in it; and then it's actually somehow their fault.

There have been plenty of mitigating factors, absolutely. But there are also failings within those.

"Transition season"

This one actually puzzles me, because whilst there's been plenty of evidence that we're moving away from something, there's been precious little that we're moving toward something else, particularly with the ball. But that's by the by - if we accept that this is a transition season, then I've got to say that attempting to do that with 15 knackered players, a 2-week pre-season, and only one 1st team signing (despite losing two from from an already small squad) was frankly fucking brain dead.

"injuries have killed us"

Well, yes, and Raul's is a freak accident. Jonny, Podence, Boly and Neto are all important players that have missed spells injured - but we've spent two years sucking the cocks of our sports scientists because we don't get injuries; I was slaughtered for saying it was lucky, and that we couldn't rely on it. Now we're getting them, we're unlucky, apparently. We can't have it both ways.

"It's a pandemic"

It's a pandemic in West Ham too, no? There are no fans anywhere?

We haven't failed in transition because of injuries or the pandemic; we've failed because of the coaching and the recruitment, ultimately. We're left with a group of players that can't play how they used to play, and can't play how they're going to play, and we're just resorting to the oldest/most experienced eleven available, with little-to-no identifiable tactical plan. Recruitment has been absolute dogshit, for years. In the last 5 windows, there's only Neto that I wouldn't return for a refund. Yeah, Semedo's certainly improving, but still nowhere near a £30m right back ffs.

We're a mess, and we either need loads of players to change, or we need fresh ideas from new coaching staff. I think what it comes down to is that the manager and most of the players were really, really good at the low-block, counter attacking style - but only a handful are capable of changing, and tbh I don't think Nuno is one of them. We've wasted a season, and we'll probably end up wasting another one next year too. At the end of the day, I support Wolves, not Nuno FC - if he can't start to get a tune out of the tools he's got at his disposal - which he's definitely not - then that's something that only ever ends one way.

Cracking post and it says a lot that hardly anyone has replied directly to it, or come back to you with a counter-argument. Deep down people know you're right, I reckon

This season has been shite. The performances have been shite. The tactics have been shite. The reasons people are providing for us under-performing are not specific or unique to Wolves. They have had an impact on each and every club in different ways and I don't buy in to a lot of them affecting us more than others. But once again, Wop, you hit the nail on the head above and people don't want to listen. It's easier to accuse you of not being a "proper supporter" or being "hysterical" or whatever.

For what it's worth, as per my opening post in the Burnley verdict thread, I want Fosun to back Nuno to the hilt this summer. Nuno has lost his way this season, but I still feel, with fresh, genuine additions to the FIRST TEAM this summer that we can go again next season and start challenging that top 6 again. I still want Nuno here and I still want him to succeed. But Fosun (& Mendes and co) need to seriously improve the squad this window to give him a chance. We can't go any further playing Saiss/Coady/Donk etc week in week out. Time for them to open up the purse and if Nuno comes back refreshed and ready to go, hopefully we can get our mojo back.

 

[sycophantia]

Cracking post and it says a lot that hardly anyone has replied directly to it, or come back to you with a counter-argument. Deep down people know you're right, I reckon

This season has been shite. The performances have been shite. The tactics have been shite. The reasons people are providing for us under-performing are not specific or unique to Wolves. They have had an impact on each and every club in different ways and I don't buy in to a lot of them affecting us more than others. But once again, Wop, you hit the nail on the head above and people don't want to listen. It's easier to accuse you of not being a "proper supporter" or being "hysterical" or whatever.

For what it's worth, as per my opening post in the Burnley verdict thread, I want Fosun to back Nuno to the hilt this summer. Nuno has lost his way this season, but I still feel, with fresh, genuine additions to the FIRST TEAM this summer that we can go again next season and start challenging that top 6 again. I still want Nuno here and I still want him to succeed. But Fosun (& Mendes and co) need to seriously improve the squad this window to give him a chance. We can't go any further playing Saiss/Coady/Donk etc week in week out. Time for them to open up the purse and if Nuno comes back refreshed and ready to go, hopefully we can get our mojo back.

Not sure why you are trying to stir an us and them reaction here, there's plenty of evidence that a lot of people think this way and tbf Dels post got lots of likes

 

[prawnking]

Not sure why you are trying to stir an us and them reaction here, there's plenty of evidence that a lot of people think this way and tbf Dels post got lots of likes

Since you brought it up...there's already an us and them on here. Look at the condescending nonsense that gets thrown around, even without a single Nuno Out person on here. Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it isn't a thing.

"Lots of likes"...Del's post got 6 likes, three were from people who hardly post and two were from me and Jinky

Quite a bit of truth-bending going on this morning

 

[Wolf of Ashford]

I think I’m prepared to give Nuno a pass on this season. He’s earnt a bit of trust in the time he has lead the club.

Some of the decisions made last summer whilst obviously taken with the best of intention, clearly in hindsight have been mistakes, and I think those mistakes have been compounded during the season with Nuno being a bit muddled in his thinking – for the first time since he’s been with us. For example, I don’t believe that if Nuno had the intention last summer that we would switch to a 4-2-3-1 formation, he’d have wanted a squad that holds just 3 players (Podence, Neto & Traore) who can play in the 3 behind the front 1. It’s ludicrous because as soon as one of those players is out, the whole thing falls over.

Obviously injuries have taken their toll but I think there’s ongoing fitness issues throughout the whole season. When good players suddenly take a big dip in form I’m always wondering whether they’re carrying an injury or slight fitness concern. Podence at the moment is the obvious example because he’s a shadow of the player that started the season, or that we saw glimpses of last season when Nuno gave him game time.

This I think has been largely down to the club having no preseason whatsoever. Combined with our small squad, we are literally limping to the end of the season. Our performances are evidence of that.

There’s surely no doubt that the pandemic has had a profound effect on the club as a whole professionally , and most probably Nuno and some of the players personally too. And whilst every club has had to play with these issues, it doesn’t affect everybody the same.

City have such a strong squad it’s had little effect. Clubs like West Ham, Everton & Villa have all improved massively from last season and they all benefited from a relatively normal pre-season. Certainly in West Ham’s case, I would argue that no fans in the stadium have probably helped them, particularly after losing their first few games this season, the atmosphere for them would have been toxic and a lot more difficult to shake off.

Liverpool have probably been effected to a similar degree to us in terms of injuries, fitness, lack of crowds and Klopp on a personal level (infact, he’s had it worse than Nuno in recent months) and it has impacted their results massively. Obviously masked a bit because they’re still having a season we would love to have, but relatively speaking from what they’ve been over the last couple of seasons compared to what they are this season, I would argue it is comparable with us.

I just feel this season, has been a perfect storm for us. Some because of decisions and misjudgements we made and some things that were really out of our control.

For me personally, what I would really like to see is us be a lot more aggressive when we don’t have the ball, as I feel that winning the ball higher up the pitch will naturally unsettle opposition and help our forward play if we can get the like of Neto and Podence on the ball 30 yards from goal rather than 60 yards from goal. Plus, it will just be a lot more interesting to watch.
So I will be disappointed if we start next season with the same old passive defending.

But, I’ve never been more confident of a Wolves manager than I am with Nuno, that he is capable of self-evaluation and able to come back stronger, with a new plan and a clear way to implement it. I’m also confident Fosun are capable of the same process.

So I am confident that next season we will bounce back, and hopefully with Nuno in charge

 

[Wilf Wolf]

One thing that I think often gets overlooked is that once you have played teams a few times they learn how to play against you. For two seasons we were frequently allowed to pass the ball around at the back and only a few teams pressured us. Similarly the wing backs were frequently left in space and were a great outlet for us, especially from Coady. Now more teams press us as they know it works, we give possession away easily and balls to the wingbacks are increasingly rare. With teams pressing any counter attacks start from deeper positions so are less effective. With hindsight it's no surprise Jota looked to be going backwards - we were simply asking too much of him. In possession we rely on Traore as an outlet far too much, we rarely build an attack from the back and we still don't push enough bodies into the box when we do go forwards.

Whilst this has been evolving Nuno has increasingly reverted to a defensive set up, especially in the first halves of games. Sitting two midfielders in front of 3 centre backs is a consequence of not having centre backs that are good enough and yesterday showed this as clear as day. To concede first in 21/23 matches is not bad luck, it's an absolute disgrace. Our tactics are increasingly those of a team not wanting to lose, injuries certainly haven't helped but given the service from behind I'm not convinced Raul would have had any more impact than Jose yesterday. I really hope Nuno has a plan of how to fix things over the summer but sadly I'm not convinced as there have been plenty of chances to improve things this season and he hasn't taken them.

 

[Jabbawolf]

My biggest issue is quality of football being poor and results being average. He’s got the benefit of the doubt until 6-10 games next season really. But if we’re on like 4 points after 8 games AND performances are rubbish then I don’t see how he stays on.

I just don't get this - this season has been a write-off - why would you back Nuno, get his players in, assimilate the players to the formation, and then get rid after 6-10 games, and risk another write-off - for me, you back him and that means for the majority of next season, or you give someone else a go, with a full pre-season and their own recruitment.

 

[sycophantia]

Since you brought it up...there's already an us and them on here. Look at the condescending nonsense that gets thrown around, even without a single Nuno Out person on here. Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it isn't a thing.

"Lots of likes"...Del's post got 6 likes, three were from people who hardly post and two were from me and Jinky

Quite a bit of truth-bending going on this morning

Yep there's different opinions, its a forum. Actually 6 likes is quite a lot on this forum, its quite a small number that post on anything. There's only a handful of people who regularly try to wind each other up, I would say most of us sometimes agree with one side, sometimes the other.

 

[prawnking]

Yep there's different opinions, its a forum.

This gets repeated with complacent regularity, so why the gnashing of teeth when someone has a pop at Nuno or a favoured player? I'm not talking about someone disagreeing, I'm talking about people being told they're not fans, or somehow inferior for holding that opinion.