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Fans expectations and our future strategy

Where has this nonsense that 'we're taking a step backwards' come from.

I doubt Nuno wants to take any steps backwards and given we've finished 7th twice in a row I can't see Nuno settling for anything less. Just not his way.

This was my thought whilst reading the thread.
I doubt that Nuno or Fosun are aiming for anything less than an improvement on last season.
The strategy is different to numerous other clubs in the PL.
This makes things even more interesting. Nuno seems to thrive more as a coach, developing players. A significant proportion of players have noticeably improved under Nuno's tutelage. Therefore, the club are playing to the managers strengths.

Players who ain't likely to cut it aren't kept around unnecessarily. They're moved on (cutrone, vallejo, mir) or loaned out.
 
You didn't need to quote from the transfer thread, what you wrote in the main body of your post about the long term benefits of the risk taking in the second half of the season was actually a good point.

The quote actually came off as a bit pompous tbh and relied on some pretty heavy straw-man construction.

While the window is open all we can ever do is comment on the now, no need to use pejorative words like Judgement and Hysterical just because you disagree with the assessment of others
Oh it was "actually a good point" was it? Now who's pompous? I copied my post over from the other thread as it touched on some of the same discussion points that are happening here.

I've been making the exact same point about our transfer policy and the exceptional circumstances the club finds itself in all summer.

Some people have chosen to express dismay at the club as it went along, only to find themselves at the end of it all pretty much aligned with everyone else's assessment of the window (7/10 ish).

That suggests to me that getting worked up about something before you have all the facts with which to reach an informed conclusion is a monumental waste of time. And deserves being called out when the reactionary pessimism drags all the rest of us down.

PS: in what world is the word "judgement" pejorative when used as a synonym for "conclusion"?
 
I think the Moutinho stuff is being overplayed, he was very good vs Sheff Utd. Was in a number of games post-restart too (Palace in particular) but no, it's been decided now that he's been shit since lockdown. It's a terrible narrative and just not true.

I saw him captain Portugal to a 4-1 win over Croatia (could have been 9-1 in truth, and Ronaldo wasn't playing) and I didn't see a lot wrong with him.

Last season Mr consistent. This season three poor games in four. At 34 we are entitled to be cautious. He has not been himself so far.
 
Hang on, he didn't even start on Sunday.

Show a bit of respect is all I ask, he's the best footballer anyone under 45 will have ever seen in a Wolves shirt.
 
Hang on, he didn't even start on Sunday.

Show a bit of respect is all I ask, he's the best footballer anyone under 45 will have ever seen in a Wolves shirt.

Yes. Beckham was great too but age caught up with him. Moutinho has played worse in three games than he did in any game since he joined. He did bugger all positive on Sunday either. I am very worried that time has caught up with him but I will not write him off yet. Come on Joao. Get back to your best for two more years.
 
League Cup is a good opportunity for teams like us, Leicester, Everton (Villa last year!) to make a semi final or even final, before Man City win it

I'm glad that John Barnwell didn't take that approach in 1980 when we ended up beating the team that had won it the previous two years and were reigning European Champions.
 
I'm glad that John Barnwell didn't take that approach in 1980 when we ended up beating the team that had won it the previous two years and were reigning European Champions.

Yeah, but it's a different landscape now, isn't it. It was important then but it's been a trinket for 25 years now. An entire quarter of a century.

Believe me, I'd have loved to see us win what was considered to be a major trophy at Wembley, but I was -1 at the time and I'm not a young man any more. People don't care about the League Cup, it's a total anachronism that we have two domestic cups (lower league clubs have three).
 
Oh it was "actually a good point" was it? Now who's pompous? I copied my post over from the other thread as it touched on some of the same discussion points that are happening here.

I've been making the exact same point about our transfer policy and the exceptional circumstances the club finds itself in all summer.

Some people have chosen to express dismay at the club as it went along, only to find themselves at the end of it all pretty much aligned with everyone else's assessment of the window (7/10 ish).

That suggests to me that getting worked up about something before you have all the facts with which to reach an informed conclusion is a monumental waste of time. And deserves being called out when the reactionary pessimism drags all the rest of us down.

PS: in what world is the word "judgement" pejorative when used as a synonym for "conclusion"?

I genuinely thought it was a good point and stated so pretty plainly. Even in the tone-free world of internet forums I don't see how that is pompous, it's just your way of saying 'and so are you'.

Regarding judgement, it was you using it as a pejorative, in that it was the final conclusion...which the Eloi saved until now, and the Morlocks spewed out prematurely.

It's grossly misrepresentative. No one who questioned parts of the transfer window ever said that was their final judgement, it was only ever an assessment at that day and time. Without us all doing that, with whatever perspective, what is the bloody point in having a thread about the transfer window.

I wish some users would stop treating TWF like a political party and just acknowledge what it is. It's to talk about Wolves. None of us are right or wrong all the time, none of us have access to all the facts when following Wolves, sometimes we never know the true story, other times it's years later. Even with the window closed the final 'judgement' we're making now isn't really that.

One more thing, all these loaded phrases bandied about today like 'dismay' and 'worked up' and 'hysteria' often are used in reference to the 'moaners', and the implication is that those negative traits come out in their comments about the club, bad anti-Wolves fans that they are, but actually most of the disagreements, vitriol and arguments come in personal clashes with 'positive' posters on the board.
 
Perfectly fine with our strategy, and quite frankly it’s the most realistic/sensible.

2 7th place finishes is brilliant, and yes we could say let’s try and push on, but to sign 2/3 players to go straight into the 11 would surely cost 100+. Although we have owners with very deep pockets, they are an investment company and the go big on players is relatively high risk. There’s no guarantees the players would settle if they were from abroad. If we didn’t push on but paid big fees and wages it could bite us in the arse going forward. Plenty of examples of that.

Going for a couple of proven players with the young lads with potential is a lot lower risk IMO with a lot more benefits. This team, in transition if you like is still good enough for top 10 or a potential top 6 challenge with the team then being even stronger next year due to the additional year under their belts. Also with the young players we will atleast have the chance to recoup funds if things don’t work out and there wages won’t be astronomical. Factor in that the left back and silva are arguably 2 of the most exciting prospects in their respective positions with huge ceilings, it’s an extremely exciting Time.

We also need to be realistic, we do not have the clout of other clubs to get the high calibre ‘seasoned pro’s ‘ like the top 6.
 
Yeah, but it's a different landscape now, isn't it. It was important then but it's been a trinket for 25 years now. An entire quarter of a century.

Believe me, I'd have loved to see us win what was considered to be a major trophy at Wembley, but I was -1 at the time and I'm not a young man any more. People don't care about the League Cup, it's a total anachronism that we have two domestic cups (lower league clubs have three).

I accept it is a devalued competition but I was disagreeing with the defeatist attitude that it wasn’t worth bothering as we’d lose to City anyway.
 
Yeah, but it's a different landscape now, isn't it. It was important then but it's been a trinket for 25 years now. An entire quarter of a century.

Believe me, I'd have loved to see us win what was considered to be a major trophy at Wembley, but I was -1 at the time and I'm not a young man any more. People don't care about the League Cup, it's a total anachronism that we have two domestic cups (lower league clubs have three).

It was a passport to europe for teams who were not good enough to get their by league qualification. Middlesbrough, Birmingham and Swansea fans who won the competition since 2000 didnt consider it a trinket and loved being in europe. None of them were challenging for it in the League. You could say that it didnt help them in the league as they are all 2nd tier now. Wigan Portsmouth Villa Southampton all cup finalists this century and all suffered relegations so its a fine line. Personally, this season it doesnt mean much at all as it has been further devalued with qualification for some second tier bollocks. Personally I would prefer ALL cup winners to go into a cup winners cup european tournament and that should include the league cup ( even though the old CWC didnt)
 
It was a passport to europe for teams who were not good enough to get their by league qualification. Middlesbrough, Birmingham and Swansea fans who won the competition since 2000 didnt consider it a trinket and loved being in europe. None of them were challenging for it in the League. You could say that it didnt help them in the league as they are all 2nd tier now. Wigan Portsmouth Villa Southampton all cup finalists this century and all suffered relegations so its a fine line. Personally, this season it doesnt mean much at all as it has been further devalued with qualification for some second tier bollocks. Personally I would prefer ALL cup winners to go into a cup winners cup european tournament and that should include the league cup ( even though the old CWC didnt)

The irony to what you're saying here is that the League Cup only exists because the FL were getting shirty in the 60s about the European Cup's success, and about the FA taking too big a share of falling matchday attendances - so a new cup was launched explicitly to give league clubs a way to get some extra prestige and revenue. And from the very start lots of people hated it and thought it was a bad idea, diluting the season and causing fixture congestion.

And if it's primarily about giving clubs another route into Europe that isn't the league, then you could just as easily apply that argument to, say, giving both FA Cup finalists a European spot, for example. A whole other competition is kind of overkill.
 
The irony to what you're saying here is that the League Cup only exists because the FL were getting shirty in the 60s about the European Cup's success, and about the FA taking too big a share of falling matchday attendances - so a new cup was launched explicitly to give league clubs a way to get some extra prestige and revenue. And from the very start lots of people hated it and thought it was a bad idea, diluting the season and causing fixture congestion.

And if it's primarily about giving clubs another route into Europe that isn't the league, then you could just as easily apply that argument to, say, giving both FA Cup finalists a European spot, for example. A whole other competition is kind of overkill.

Not wishing to split hairs but I see it as two different arguments and Wolves commitment to the cups as two different things. Our league cup effort is generally awful. Its a fact and I thought it was a shame as it was a route to Europe which is what attracts or can attract the better players, the Mendes Circle of life . No europe and people look at greener grass. If youre asking me would I rather be in europe and finish 10th or not be in europe and finish 7th, I would be finishing 10th. Reach a cup final and be relegated or not reach a final and stay up its the latter. Premiership survival is the first aim of the club each year every year. It is imperative. But- and I may be a bit greedy- I would like us to have a cup run in either cup as it gives (or gave) you two chances for europe.
 
Yeah, I don't disagree it'd be nice to win it, sure (although not at the cost of overall progress as a club). But I'm not going to shed a tear if it's ever taken out behind the woodshed.
 
Wolves next step will be to close the commercial gap on those they want to challenge with. Selling Jota is part of that step as it's allowed the acquisition of other players that may eventually lead to further big sales. Repeat that cycle enough whilst being successful and you will eventually get to the stage where you don't have to sell, or can sell less frequently and start to increase the wage bill. The question of did we overachieve, in terms of wage spending the answer is massively.
 
I've discussed it over on Twitter a lot (and some on here have said it already) but I think we're going to be the Dortmund of English football: the strategy may not always reap trophies and grandeur, but it will mean we have saleable assets and will get some of the best young players in Europe to join us (see Haaland and Bellingham for Dortmund). I can't see our Premier League status being in trouble any time soon and we will gradually cement ourselves as a top 10 team. If you're a young player (barring those of Mbappe potential) would you want to move to Chelsea and benchwarm or play in the same league/potentially same European Cup competition with Wolves?

Not sure how long Dortmund have had this model but it does seem a successful one financially and they rarely struggle in the league. That's the way I see us heading. And the better you are at it, the better youngsters you will attract.
 
I've discussed it over on Twitter a lot (and some on here have said it already) but I think we're going to be the Dortmund of English football: the strategy may not always reap trophies and grandeur, but it will mean we have saleable assets and will get some of the best young players in Europe to join us (see Haaland and Bellingham for Dortmund). I can't see our Premier League status being in trouble any time soon and we will gradually cement ourselves as a top 10 team. If you're a young player (barring those of Mbappe potential) would you want to move to Chelsea and benchwarm or play in the same league/potentially same European Cup competition with Wolves?

Not sure how long Dortmund have had this model but it does seem a successful one financially and they rarely struggle in the league. That's the way I see us heading. And the better you are at it, the better youngsters you will attract.


I think we'll use a Dortmund model until we don't have to. I hope we'll still pursue youth but also get players in who are in their prime to supplement them.
 
Dortmund regularly play their new youngsters as soon as they sign them though. Are we going to be prepared to do that with Silva, Ait-Nouri and Hoever?
 
Dortmund regularly play their new youngsters as soon as they sign them though. Are we going to be prepared to do that with Silva, Ait-Nouri and Hoever?
We certainly will with Silva. He won't start a huge amount as Raúl & Podence are better than him right now but he's definitely been bought in to provide an option for the first team.

Aït-Nouri I know very little about but considering the hissy fits fans of clubs like PSG, Lyon & Marseille threw when we signed him I wouldn't be surprised if he was good enough to start straight away.

Hoever's game time will depend entirely on Semedo's availability IMO. If Nélson is fit then he plays, if he isn't we've already shown that we're not afraid to play him in big games.

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Hoever will surely be a long term RCB with Boly switching to the left. Assuming Marcal doesn't go to LCB.
 
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