Keir Starmer at it again..

[leedswolf]

Victims want action, child abuse inquiry chair Alexis Jay says - BBC News

"People need to step up to the mark" to tackle child abuse grooming gangs, Prof Alexis Jay tells BBC.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jlo]

It's funny that all this is playing out in the Starmer thread despite 14 years of Conservative leadership

 

[Walshes Wolves]

This shouldn't be about left or right, it should be about the children.
The Police, the Crown Prosecution and Social services failed the children. Any Policeman, or Social services that were frightened to investigate, because of upsetting certain people are cowards and should be investigated and pay the price. The children should have been protected and the people who were there to protect them, on many occasions didn't.
The State failed the children, it shouldn’t be about party politics, it should be about thousands of children who were raped. This is a stain on our country and society.

 

[AndyWolves]

Not that I have a dog in this fight but whilst doom scrolling this popped up

https://twitter.com/x/status/1876534702217085408

 

[Walshes Wolves]

Please read this timeline of the raping of children.
How can so many police forces, social services and Crown Prosecution get away with that?
Why aren't the people responsible for ignoring the safety of those children not in prison for a long time?
Why would any government not want an enquiry that puts the people responsible for those decisions in jail?
Both political parties should be absolutely ashamed of themselves. This should override political allegiances and the respect for children's safety should be paramount. How have they educated us and indoctrinated us, to turn our backs on thousands of children's safety and put our political ideals first?
There has been a cover up from top to bottom and everything is put before the thousands of children who have suffered horrendous group rapes and torture.

Grooming gangs scandal timeline: What happened, what inquiries there were and how Starmer was involved - after Elon Musk's accusations

Sir Keir was head of the Crown Prosecution Service for five years when grooming gangs were being investigated.

news.sky.com

 

[Keef]

We’ve had the inquiries, they take years, tories decided to ignore all the recommendations.
Less talking more action.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

We’ve had the inquiries, they take years, tories decided to ignore all the recommendations.
Less talking more action.

How many police, social workers or people in the justice system have been prosecuted for purposely ignoring the suffering of these children?

 

[The Saturday Boy]

How many police, social workers or people in the justice system have been prosecuted for purposely ignoring the suffering of these children?

To be prosecuted there needs to be a law that has been broken. There is currently (and therefore wasn’t at the time) a general statutory obligation for individuals to report child abuse although existing guidelines do create an expectation that they report such abuse. In addition, certain professions may have a standard or code of conduct that gives rise to an obligation to report abuse, but failure to do so would be a matter for their regulatory body and not the criminal justice system. A national inquiry would not address this question or change the facts.

The existing independent enquiry, of which the recommendations remain outstanding, identified that there had been “a marked absence of a cohesive set of laws and procedures…that require individuals working with children to report child sexual abuse.”

So the answer to your question is none…because there was no law to prosecute. And you won’t get an inquiry that recommends new laws to retrospectively prosecute people.

You argue that there has been a cover up, if that is the case it wasn’t a very good cover up. You know about it, you know that people did not take action when they had the opportunity to do so, you know that it some cases that inaction was motivated by concerns about race and/or that the victims were consenting to the conduct, you know that there is concern that British Pakistanis are possibly over represented in instances of sexual grooming of this type (although white people remain the majority of perpetrators and the research into ethnicity and perpetrators is not as reliable as suggested). So you, and everyone else, knows all this…what is actually being covered up?

 

[Templeton Peck]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1876976059943420083

 

[Walshes Wolves]

To be prosecuted there needs to be a law that has been broken. There is currently (and therefore wasn’t at the time) a general statutory obligation for individuals to report child abuse although existing guidelines do create an expectation that they report such abuse. In addition, certain professions may have a standard or code of conduct that gives rise to an obligation to report abuse, but failure to do so would be a matter for their regulatory body and not the criminal justice system. A national inquiry would not address this question or change the facts.

The existing independent enquiry, of which the recommendations remain outstanding, identified that there had been “a marked absence of a cohesive set of laws and procedures…that require individuals working with children to report child sexual abuse.”

So the answer to your question is none…because there was no law to prosecute. And you won’t get an inquiry that recommends new laws to retrospectively prosecute people.

You argue that there has been a cover up, if that is the case it wasn’t a very good cover up. You know about it, you know that people did not take action when they had the opportunity to do so, you know that it some cases that inaction was motivated by concerns about race and/or that the victims were consenting to the conduct, you know that there is concern that British Pakistanis are possibly over represented in instances of sexual grooming of this type (although white people remain the majority of perpetrators and the research into ethnicity and perpetrators is not as reliable as suggested). So you, and everyone else, knows all this…what is actually being covered up?

Many police stations were not investigating the gang rapes and torture of predominantly white children, which are henious crimes and are very definitely against the law. It needs a national enquiry because it was happening all over the country and the likelihood is that an order came from above not to investigate the raping and torture of white children, because it could cause racial tension. For a police force to knowingly not charge people of crimes, knowing that a crime was committed and the children's lives were at danger, is perverting the cause of justice and in a way collaborating with the criminals.

There was never a national enquiry in to grooming gangs. The enquiry was in to child protection, with a very small pary of the enquiry mentioning Rotherham. It is a national problem and I believe Starmer did useful things when he was the chief prosecutor, however it I comes across now as the government are more worried about protecting themselves, than they are young children. The Conservative Party are using this politically and did next to nothing to follow up on the recommendations.

Many people are frustrated, because they see that the state that is there to protect all it's citizens, didn't protect thousands of children, because of the colour of their skin, because there is no way that the police and Crown Prosecution would have not charged gang rapes of ethnic children, by predominantly white men. It would have rightly been labelled a right wing, racist agenda to systematically attack children because of their ethnicity. It would have constantly been reported as racist attacks and police would have been very proactive in investigating the crimes and prosecuting the perpetrators.

What has happened is very wrong and needs a thorough national enquiry and the people involved in the decision making and the people responsible need to be prosecuted so justice is seen to be done and this can never happen again.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Many police stations were not investigating the gang rapes and torture of predominantly white children, which are henious crimes and are very definitely against the law. It needs a national enquiry because it was happening all over the country and the likelihood is that an order came from above not to investigate the raping and torture of white children, because it could cause racial tension. For a police force to knowing not charge people of crimes, knowing that a crime was committed and the children's lives were at danger, is perverting the cause of justice and in a way collaborating with the criminals.

There was never a national enquiry in to grooming gangs. The enquiry was in to child protection, with a very small pary of the enquiry mentioning Rotherham. It is a national problem and I believe Starmer did useful things when he was the chief prosecutor, however it I comes across now as the government are more worried about protecting themselves, than they are young children. The Conservative Party are using this politically and did next to nothing to follow up on the recommendations.

Many people are frustrated, because they see that the state that is there to protect all it's citizens, didn't protect thousands of children, because of the colour of their skin, because there is no way that the police and Crown Prosecution would have not charged gang rapes of ethnic children, by predominantly white men. It would have rightly been labelled a right wing, racist agenda to systematically attack children because they are white. It would have constantly been reported as racist attacks and police would have been very proactive in investigating the crimes and prosecuting the perpetrators.

What has happened is very wrong and needs a thorough national enquiry and the people involved in the decision making and the people responsible need to be prosecuted, because it unlawful and so it never happen again.

So you know all this, we all know this…so there can’t have been a cover up. Why don’t you just come out and say what you really want which is the blame to be pinned on Muslims.

As for people being prosecuted, I have set out unambiguously why that can’t happen even if there was an inquiry and you have ignored it. If you can’t get your head around basic facts, your argument for an inquiry is based on a foundation of sand.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

So you know all this, we all know this…so there can’t have been a cover up. Why don’t you just come out and say what you really want which is the blame to be pinned on Muslims.

As for people being prosecuted, I have set out unambiguously why that can’t happen even if there was an inquiry and you have ignored it. If you can’t get your head around basic facts, your argument for an inquiry is based on a foundation of sand.

What I really want is people to be investigated and prosecuted, because they didn't charge people because it would cause racial tension, when their duty was to protect innocent children. I would be saying exactly the same if groups of white men were targeting young Asian children.

I am against all racism, not just racism when it suits me. I am for protecting all children and the colour of the skin is irrelevant to me. It isn't that the majority of grooming gangs were Pakistani which is the problem for me, but that the law, which is there to protect all of us, especially children, acted differently because of the colour of the perpetrators skin.
If you can't see that, it is because you are putting political ideology, before justice and the protection of innocent children, something which I am never going to do.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

What I really want is people to be investigated and prosecuted, because they didn't charge people because it would cause racial tension, when their duty was to protect innocent children. I would be saying exactly the same if groups of white men were targeting young Asian children.

I am against all racism, not just racism when it suits me. I am for protecting all children and the colour of the skin is irrelevant to me. It isn't that the majority of grooming gangs were Pakistani which is the problem for me, but that the law, which is there to protect all of us, especially children, acted differently because of the colour of the perpetrators skin.
If you can't see that, it is because you are putting political ideology, before justice and the protection of innocent children, something which I am never going to do.

You want which people to be investigated and prosecuted because of their inaction but this CANNOT happen. I don't know how to explain this to you in any way that you seen to understand but no national inquiry is going to change this no matter how much you want it to.

You say it isn't about your own racism then go on to make a factually inaccurate statement about Pakistani men. The majority (numerically) of grooming gangs were were and are white. If you want to explore whether, in particular Pakistani men, are over represented in such cases then the evidence (and lack of it) already exists and a national inquiry won't change those facts either.

Your wholly inaccurate assessment of my stance being one of "political ideology" is wide of the mark. I deal with the consequences of poor child protection procedures and also perpetrators of such abuse on a regular basis. What is needed is action, not inquiry. We know what the shortcomings in the current system is and an inquiry won't add anything of importance.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

You want which people to be investigated and prosecuted because of their inaction but
this CANNOT happen. I don't know how to explain this to you in any way that you seen to understand but no national inquiry is going to change this no matter how much you want it to.

You say it isn't about your own racism then go on to make a factually inaccurate statement about Pakistani men. The majority (numerically) of grooming gangs were were and are white. If you want to explore whether, in particular Pakistani men, are over represented in such cases then the evidence (and lack of it) already exists and a national inquiry won't change those facts either.

Your wholly inaccurate assessment of my stance being one of "political ideology" is wide of the mark. I deal with the consequences of poor child protection procedures and also perpetrators of such abuse on a regular basis. What is needed is action, not inquiry. We know what the shortcomings in the current system is and an inquiry won't add anything of importance.

I am not making an issue of the colour of the skin of the perpetrators, but the fact the police acted differently, because of the colour of skin of the perpetrators. As a result thousands of children were raped and tortured.
Not wanting an national investigation in to specifically that subject, is to not want to punish and hold responsible those people who were responsible for such decisions.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I am not making an issue of the colour of the skin of the perpetrators, but the fact the police acted differently, because of the colour of skin of the perpetrators. As a result thousands of children were raped and tortured.
Not wanting an national investigation in to specifically that subject, is to not want to punish and hold responsible those people who were responsible for such decisions.

So you want a national inquiry to find out something we already know. That makes so much sense I can't understand why it isn't happening.

We know that the colour of skin was a factor in not pursuing some gangs earlier. We also know why that happened. We know the consequences of that inaction. We know what needs to be done to make sure it doesn't happen again.

What do you want your.inquiry to do if it can't retrospectively prosecuted people for their inaction which seems to be your desire.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

So you want a national inquiry to find out something we already know. That makes so much sense I can't understand why it isn't happening.

We know that the colour of skin was a factor in not pursuing some gangs earlier. We also know why that happened. We know the consequences of that inaction. We know what needs to be done to make sure it doesn't happen again.

What do you want your.inquiry to do if it can't retrospectively prosecuted people for their inaction which seems to be your desire.

Who says you can't retrospectively prosecute people?
If someone gave the orders, which knowingly allowed thousands of children to continue to be raped and tortured, there would be a high price to be paid.
The failure to investigate the people who made those decisions, is to protect the people who allowed thousands of children to be raped and tortured.
I don't want them to be protected and it brushed under the carpet.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Do you think someone, somewhere actively made a decision to "allow children to be raped and tortured"?

Because it sounds as if you do?

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Who says you can't retrospectively prosecute people?
If someone gave the orders, which knowingly allowed thousands of children to continue to be raped and tortured, there would be a high price to be paid.
The failure to investigate the people who made those decisions, is to protect the people who allowed thousands of children to be raped and tortured.
I don't want them to be protected and it brushed under the carpet.

The law says you can't, generally, retrospectively prosecute people for a crime that they did not commit - as there was no law that made what they did and didn't do a crime at the time. There was no law broken because no such law exists or existed at the time. There are plans to bring in a new law around mandatory reporting, but you can't then go back and retrospectively apply that law unless, in exceptional circumstances, the purpose of the new law was to clarify the intention of existing laws in place at the time of the alleged activities.

In these cases, it was set out very clearly that there were statutory guidelines rather than statutory requirements and this would have been a conscious decision which may have been the wrong decision...but you can't just change a law and then apply it retrospectively unless you really do want to leave in an autocratic state where political leaders can abuse the legal system in such a way.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

Do you think someone, somewhere actively made a decision to "allow children to be raped and tortured"?

Because it sounds as if you do?

The way I look at it is this. Various police stations were not arresting the perpetrators of the rapes and torture, which allowed rapes and torture against children to continue. The conclusion after reading the report and various other enquiries, is that it was because the police were worried about racial tensions. The logical conclusion from that is, the inaction of the police and prosecuting service would mean children would continue to be raped and tortured by the perpetrators. It isn't me saying it, people are now in prison because they continued to rape children, after the children had reported to the police and the police refused to protect them.
The people responsible for making the decisions that allowed children to be raped and tortured by sometimes as many as 20 men at a time, need to face justice.
I am not interested in the politics behind it and will say the Conservative Party weren't interested when they were in power and are only interested in political point scoring.
Not to bring the people who made those decisions in front of a court is failing all children. I really can't believe this is allowed to happen in England.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Not to bring the people the people who made those decisions in front of a court is failing all children. I really can't believe this is allowed to happen in England.

There. Was. No. Law. Broken.

We don't need a fucking inquiry to tell you what we already know.

Go away and come up with a legitimate reason for an inquiry and maybe you'll get different responses.