Keir Starmer at it again..

[nimrod]

just to add, there are plenty of cases where police have acted inappropriately and people have suffered for it and nobody has been held to account. I watched a programme about the Cardiff 3 the other night. A case was brought against various police officials but was dropped when a box containing key evidence (in)conveniently went "missing". Apparently it was subsequently found after the case against them had collapsed.

why aren't people wetting their knickers about this? how can anybody be satisfied any dodgy practices didn't apply in many other convictions of that investigating force?

there's also doubts over numerous cases such as Omar Benguit who was convicted after three trials of murder but who I think would have been released in 2022 had he ever confessed to it, rather than continue to claim his innocence. if he actually committed the crime, why wouldn't he have admitted it by now and be released? IIRC some witnesses admitted that police had fed them what to say, nevermind there was another obvious suspect in close vicinity to the murder scene. how many other cases did similar iffy police practices apply?

and if fat elon is so concerned about exploitation of young girls, why isn't he devoting all his time to finding out who was involved with jeffrey epstein and who's been engaged in covering it up in his own country? is there an obvious answer to that?

 

[sycophantia]

Another enquiry would be pointless (not to mention expensive). It would just be more kicking the can down the road.
We just need to act on the findings of the original enquiry and get on with it. I have little confidence that will happen though.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

The law says you can't, generally, retrospectively prosecute people for a crime that they did not commit - as there was no law that made what they did and didn't do a crime at the time. There was no law broken because no such law exists or existed at the time. There are plans to bring in a new law around mandatory reporting, but you can't then go back and retrospectively apply that law unless, in exceptional circumstances, the purpose of the new law was to clarify the intention of existing laws in place at the time of the alleged activities.

In these cases, it was set out very clearly that there were statutory guidelines rather than statutory requirements and this would have been a conscious decision which may have been the wrong decision...but you can't just change a law and then apply it retrospectively unless you really do want to leave in an autocratic state where political leaders can abuse the legal system in such a way.

It was not the reporting that was the problem, but the failure for the police to act, knowing that children were having sex with men in their 50's, and often in groups, with the children being passed around like meat. The failure to act, knowing what they did is why they continued to be raped and tortured. The people who allowed children to be raped and tortured by grown men, need to face justice.

I don't know of any western democracy that would not prosecute the people who made these decisions and not to face justice. It is a stain on our country, politicians and judiciary system.

 

[Tony Towner]

Another enquiry would be pointless (not to mention expensive). It would just be more kicking the can down the road.
We just need to act on the findings of the original enquiry and get on with it. I have little confidence that will happen though.

This sums it up

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877084644853633377

 

[The Saturday Boy]

It was not the reporting that was the problem, but the failure for the police to act, knowing that children were having sex with men in their 50's, and often in groups, with the children being passed around like meat. The failure to act, knowing what they did is why they continued to be raped and tortured. The people who allowed children to be raped and tortured by grown men, need to face justice.

I don't know of any western democracy that would not prosecute the people who made these decisions, not to face justice. It is a stain on our country, politicians and judiciary system.

I am pretty sure EVERY western democracy does not prosecute people for laws that don't and didn't exist. You can't just make shit up.

Western democracies, probably all of them, are underpinned by the rule of law. The United Nations refers to the rule of law as "universal and indivisible values" of the United Nations and it is one of the founding principles of most European democracies. We have seen, in countries such as Hungary, the consequences of allowing far right populism undermine the rule of law and in other places around the globe far left populism has had the same effect.

In a liberal democracy, rule of law underpins the elected governments responsibility to set the law and for an independent judiciary to give effect to that law. What you are arguing for a country that is neither of those things. I don't know of any western democracy, that upholds the principles of the rule of law, that would prosecute the people who made these decisions unless they had already enacted a law that was in place at the time of the alleged offences. Can you provide an example of such a country?

 

[Walshes Wolves]

I am pretty sure EVERY western democracy does not prosecute people for laws that don't and didn't exist. You can't just make shit up.

Western democracies, probably all of them, are underpinned by the rule of law. The United Nations refers to the rule of law as "universal and indivisible values" of the United Nations and it is one of the founding principles of most European democracies. We have seen, in countries such as Hungary, the consequences of allowing far right populism undermine the rule of law and in other places around the globe far left populism has had the same effect.

In a liberal democracy, rule of law underpins the elected governments responsibility to set the law and for an independent judiciary to give effect to that law. What you are arguing for a country that is neither of those things. I don't know of any western democracy, that upholds the principles of the rule of law, that would prosecute the people who made these decisions unless they had already enacted a law that was in place at the time of the alleged offences. Can you provide an example of such a country?

There are laws there to protect children from sexual exploitation and forced prostitution. Decisions were made not to do this and those people need to face justice.

 

[MARKakaJIM]

This dude is just getting kicks out of typing raped and tortured at this point surely?

 

[The Saturday Boy]

There are laws there to protect children from sexual exploitation and forced prostitution. Decisions were made not to do this and those people need to face justice.

Be quiet now.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

This dude is just getting kicks out of typing raped and tortured at this point surely?

No not at all, just that most people who I reply to, never mention the children suffering and never mention that the CPS , police and social services didn't do to anything to protect those children. There seems to be no empathy to them here and nobody saying what the police did was immoral

 

[MARKakaJIM]

No not at all, just that most people who I reply to, never mention the children suffering and never mention that the CPS , police and social services didn't do to anything to protect those children. There seems to be no empathy to them here and nobody saying what the police did was immoral

Because it doesn't need saying.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

Because it doesn't need saying.

Injustice always needs to be defended.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

No not at all, just that most people who I reply to, never mention the children suffering and never mention that the CPS , police and social services didn't do to anything to protect those children. There seems to be no empathy to them here and nobody saying what the police did was immoral

You have no clue about my "empathy". Over 10 years ago I was doing work in response to another national inquiry

https://assets.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/wpuploads/2017/07/If_only_someone_had_listened.pdf

And what I concluded from that work is that it isn't inquiries that make the difference, it is what you do as a result of those inquiries. This last national inquiry and the recent national inquiry have both not resulted in sufficient action...and you want another national inquiry. If your empathy involves kicking the can down the road again, I suggest you need to reconsider your priorities or where you are getting your information from.

My empathy is based wholly on the absurd notion that we need things to be done now, not after another inquiry that will only tell us what we already know.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Former chief prosecutor Nazir Afzal actually said the circular came from the home office, from the very top. That is not a fabrication, he actually said it.
He might be trying damage limitation now, but listen to his original statement.

"if you think about it, you may not know this, but in 2008, the Home Office sent a circular to all police forces in the country saying "as far as these young girls being exploited in towns and cities (are concerned), we believe they've made an informed choice about their sexual behaviour and therefore it's not for you police officers to get involved in.“°
girls being exploited in towns and cities (are
concerned), we believe they've made an informed
choice about thei.....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1876174769747599553

That is a huge allegation and against the backdrop that many children were raped and tortured and that police didn’t investigate many cases which they now said they should have at the time, there needs to be a national enquiry, because it happened all over the country and the truth needs to come out, who had instructed the police to often turn a blind eye, to young children being gang raped and tortured.
I believe Starmer has no guilt at all in this, but not having a national enquiry he is leaving himself open to very serious accusations. I also believe the people responsible, if there were instructions not to investigate these crimes should be prosecuted.

Who is it that can tell the police not to investigate the raping of children?

How Elon Musk seized on baseless memo claim to create wave of misinformation

The X owner shared false claims that a Home Office memo urged police not to intervene in child grooming cases.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[lemonjelly]

If elon musk had genuine concerns and a desire to protect women and girls, why would he align himself with a convicted sexual abuser of women?
if elon musk has a desire to prevent the expoitation of under age girls, perhaps he can use his multi millions to show what jeffrey epstein, and ghislaine maxwell were involved in and arranging for a significant period of time.

If he doesn't wish to do either of these things, let us wonder what the motivation is for this sudden activity?

 

[Walshes Wolves]

You have no clue about my "empathy". Over 10 years ago I was doing work in response to another national inquiry

https://assets.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/wpuploads/2017/07/If_only_someone_had_listened.pdf

And what I concluded from that work is that it isn't inquiries that make the difference, it is what you do as a result of those inquiries. This last national inquiry and the recent national inquiry have both not resulted in sufficient action...and you want another national inquiry. If your empathy involves kicking the can down the road again, I suggest you need to reconsider your priorities or where you are getting your information from.

My empathy is based wholly on the absurd notion that we need things to be done now, not after another inquiry that will only tell us what we already know.

I

How Elon Musk seized on baseless memo claim to create wave of misinformation

The X owner shared false claims that a Home Office memo urged police not to intervene in child grooming cases.

www.bbc.co.uk

We did a bit about Azir Afzal. He changed his story completely and as he was a Crown Prosecutor, I find his statements only demonstrate more that there should be an internal investigation. He has lied that is for sure, which is worrying. After all he was in charge of the regional investigation, for the north western region where the Oldham cases were investigated.

It has been reported than in several other regions the investigations came up against a brick wall and local politicians obstructed the investigations. I don't know how much truth is in that, but again that should be investigated nationally.

I agree with you we need things done now and have said numerous times that under Starmer and the Labour government there is more progress being made to carry out the recommendations to protect children and they should be commended for that.

I think they should have an independent investigation in to why children who had asked for help after being raped continually by grooming gangs were not protected after several police forces and the CPS decided not to investigate because it could cause racial tension. If certain police from different regions made up their own rules not to protect the children they should pay the price, however I find it very difficult to believe that individual police officers would change the rules and not protect the children and arrest the perpetrators.

The State trying to cover this up now, is worrying to me. A link was put up on here from the BBC, saying that an unamed girl, who had been groomed didn't want a national investigation. I have listened to several different girls on video, who were abused and raped by grooming gangs. The BBC never mention these girls in their article, eventhough they are on videos saying they do want a national investigation.

Channel 4 did a program last night about a girl who had falsified her account of being raped by grooming gangs. I find to put a program on TV concentrating on the lies of a girl, instead of the thousands of accounts of girs who were repeatedly raped by grooming gangs as disgusting propaganda.

That is how state propaganda works and I don't want the state manipulating the news, for me in reality it is worst than Musk, who as I have said is a cunt and should keep his nose out of our affairs. The problem is, certain sections of the media are making it clear that they don't want the truth to come out about why so many of these children were ignored and not protected by the police and judiciary system.

I apologise if it comes across that you don't have empathy for children. What I am saying is very few people I reply to on here, are not mentioning the suffering of those children, who were ignored by the police and later raped by the many different older perpetrators and make it clear they don't want the police and Crown Prosecution to be investigated. It comes across, as let's concentrate on the present, which of course is a good thing, but at the same time not investigate why several police forces and authorities turned their backs on innocent children.

The whole thing stinks of protecting the establishment and state. I believe progressive politics must always put the safety of children first and not to allow the state not to be investigated by having an independent enquiry.

I am also sure that the people who made these decisions to not protect children, can be investigated at the same time as the recommendations are carried out.

 

[visage]

Adam Bienkov (@adambienkov.bsky.social)

Not a single Reform MP has bothered to turn up to today's House of Commons debate on tackling violence against women and girls

bsky.app

 

[Walshes Wolves]

Adam Bienkov (@adambienkov.bsky.social)

Not a single Reform MP has bothered to turn up to today's House of Commons debate on tackling violence against women and girls

bsky.app

Because they don't give a fuck, that was always obvious.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I
We did a bit about Azir Afzal. He changed his story completely and as he was a Crown Prosecutor, I find his statements only demonstrate more that there should be an internal investigation. He has lied that is for sure, which is worrying. After all he was in charge of the regional investigation, for the north western region where the Oldham cases were investigated.

It has been reported than in several other regions the investigations came up against a brick wall and local politicians obstructed the investigations. I don't know how much truth is in that, but again that should be investigated nationally.

I agree with you we need things done now and have said numerous times that under Starmer and the Labour government there is more progress being made to carry out the recommendations to protect children and they should be commended for that.

I think they should have an independent investigation in to why children who had asked for help after being raped continually by grooming gangs were not protected after several police forces and the CPS decided not to investigate because it could cause racial tension. If certain police from different regions made up their own rules not to protect the children they should pay the price, however I find it very difficult to believe that individual police officers would change the rules and not protect the children and arrest the perpetrators.

The State trying to cover this up now, is worrying to me. A link was put up on here from the BBC, saying that an unamed girl, who had been groomed didn't want a national investigation. I have listened to several different girls on video, who were abused and raped by grooming gangs. The BBC never mention these girls in their article, eventhough they are on videos saying they do want a national investigation.

Channel 4 did a program last night about a girl who had falsified her account of being raped by grooming gangs. I find to put a program on TV concentrating on the lies of a girl, instead of the thousands of accounts of girs who were repeatedly raped by grooming gangs as disgusting propaganda.

That is how state propaganda works and I don't want the state manipulating the news, for me in reality it is worst than Musk, who as I have said is a cunt and should keep his nose out of our affairs. The problem is, certain sections of the media are making it clear that they don't want the truth to come out about why so many of these children were ignored and not protected by the police and judiciary system.

I apologise if it comes across that you don't have empathy for children. What I am saying is very few people I reply to on here, are not mentioning the suffering of those children, who were ignored by the police and later raped by the many different older perpetrators and make it clear they don't want the police and Crown Prosecution to be investigated. It comes across, as let's concentrate on the present, which of course is a good thing, but at the same time not investigate why several police forces and authorities turned their backs on innocent children.

The whole thing stinks of protecting the establishment and state. I believe progressive politics must always put the safety of children first and not to allow the state not to be investigated by having an independent enquiry.

I am also sure that the people who made these decisions to not protect children, can be investigated at the same time as the recommendations are carried out.

Tin foil hat conspiracy theories.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

Tin foil hat conspiracy theories.

Tell that to Andy Burnham, do you see when he says charges and held to account?

https://twitter.com/x/status/1877342458310251004

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Afzal has clearly been lying about the circular for a long time.

It doesn’t exist.