Keir Starmer at it again..

[Walshes Wolves]

Afzal has clearly been lying about the circular for a long time.

It doesn’t exist.

And he was the chief prosecutor of the North Western Region.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

And?

What does that add?

 

[Walshes Wolves]

And?

What does that add?

He headed the enquiry to the Oldham grooming enquiry. As you and I agree he has lied, you can't have any confidence in the enquiry in his regional investigation.
The regional enquiries were heavily influenced by local councillors, who in some towns, were in power because of votes from the same communities, where the perpetrators of the raping of children belonged to.
I can't see why any decent person would not want to get to the bottom of where the orders came from, to not investigate the crimes against children and as Andy Burnham says, " To be held to account.
I believe that big steps have been made to protect children in the future from this happening again. My problem is that there should not be impunity, for those who were responsible for prorecting children.
Police need to disclose who it is who gave orders to not prosecute perpetrators of these crimes and protect these children and to obstruct the law in a course of duty and not carry out their duty to protect the children.
The order must have come from high up and they need to have the book thrown at them. It isn't the actual crimes that are now being covered up, but who was responsible for taking away the protection from children.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

This became a political issue between the right and the left, at the same time they forgot about the victims, that were children. Everything on both sides is about power, instead of the heinous crimes that these children suffered.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Every police circular is a matter of public record. No such circular exists?

Afzal started this bullshit. Families then naturally jumped on it as they thought he was a trustworthy source. Then Elon waded in.
That is the top of your rabbit hole

 

[Walshes Wolves]

Every police circular is a matter of public record. No such circular exists?

Afzal started this bullshit. Families then naturally jumped on it as they thought he was a trustworthy source. Then Elon waded in.
That is the top of your rabbit hole

Every police circular is a matter of public record. No such circular exists?

Afzal started this bullshit. Families then naturally jumped on it as they thought he was a trustworthy source. Then Elon waded in.
That is the top of your rabbit hole

The problem is the orders to not investigate crimes against children, by grooming gangs came from someone high up. They need to be held to account for not protecting children who had already been gang raped, but by not investigating it, let the children continue ti be raped.
I am sure you and everyone else care about these children, but it comes down to, do you want impunity for the people who gave the orders to not to protect these children, or do you want them not to be investigated and charged?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I have tried reason
Seems to have not worked.

So I will revert to pointing out the whole thing is utter bollocks

 

[Derby Wolf]

This became a political issue between the right and the left, at the same time they forgot about the victims, that were children. Everything on both sides is about power, instead of the heinous crimes that these children suffered.

The criminal justice system in this country is adversarial rather than inquisitorial.

The Crown v A. Offender

The Crown and A. Offender (or barrister of) then compete to portray the facts for a jury to determine guilt.

One of the biggest criticism of this operating model of justice is that it isn't victim centred.

What happened in towns and cities across the country and these young women and girls isn't novel in terms of their experience of the CJS.

Authorities were wrong to view the victims only through the lens of winning a/the prospective case but again, this isn't novel, the tropes about "asking for it" and judging the victims of sexual violence were still apparent and driving force beyond police and social services (in)action with the victims of grooming gangs just as they have for victims of sexual violence for decades.

That's the reason your racism is so transparent, because you're only demanding justice for the women and girls victimised by perceived outsiders, not all women and girls who have been victimised, and then re-victimised by the very criminal justice system they were expecting to deliver them justice.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

The criminal justice system in this country is adversarial rather than inquisitorial.

The Crown v A. Offender

The Crown and A. Offender (or barrister of) then compete to portray the facts for a jury to determine guilt.

One of the biggest criticism of this operating model of justice is that it isn't victim centred.

What happened in towns and cities across the country and these young women and girls isn't novel in terms of their experience of the CJS.

Authorities were wrong to view the victims only through the lens of winning a/the prospective case but again, this isn't novel, the tropes about "asking for it" and judging the victims of sexual violence were still apparent and driving force beyond police and social services (in)action with the victims of grooming gangs just as they have for victims of sexual violence for decades.

That's the reason your racism is so transparent, because you're only demanding justice for the women and girls victimised by perceived outsiders, not all women and girls who have been victimised, and then re-victimised by the very criminal justice system they were expecting to deliver them justice.

The criminal justice system in this country is adversarial rather than inquisitorial.

The Crown v A. Offender

The Crown and A. Offender (or barrister of) then compete to portray the facts for a jury to determine guilt.

One of the biggest criticism of this operating model of justice is that it isn't victim centred.

What happened in towns and cities across the country and these young women and girls isn't novel in terms of their experience of the CJS.

Authorities were wrong to view the victims only through the lens of winning a/the prospective case but again, this isn't novel, the tropes about "asking for it" and judging the victims of sexual violence were still apparent and driving force beyond police and social services (in)action with the victims of grooming gangs just as they have for victims of sexual violence for decades.

That's the reason your racism is so transparent, because you're only demanding justice for the women and girls victimised by perceived outsiders, not all women and girls who have been victimised, and then re-victimised by the very criminal justice system they were expecting to deliver them justice.

If white men had groomed and gang raped thousands of ethnic children and the police refused to investigate many cases because it might upset race relations, I would definitely post exactly the same as I am posting now.
I am not asking for opening more cases against Pakistani grooming gangs, I am asking for an investigation in to why orders were given not to investigate the raping of white children,, so it wouldn't cause racial tension. It isn't about the Pakistani grooming gangs, it is about the police and judiciary system not protecting children and leaving them to be raped and tortured again continuously.
It isn't about race for me, but the justice not protecting children, because it causes racial tension.
The cover up is not that we don't know about the crimes, but that we don't know who gave the orders not to protect children and leave them to be raped again.
There is a huge difference in what I am saying and think, than what you are saying i say and think.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

I have tried reason
Seems to have not worked.

So I will revert to pointing out the whole thing is utter bollocks

We both have different opinions and we are not getting anywhere with this.
I respect your opinion to think differently to me, but will bow out of this conversation now.

 

[leedswolf]

No evidence Keir Starmer tried to block the prosecution of Muslim grooming gangs - Full Fact

Widely-shared posts on Facebook make an unsubstantiated claim about Mr Starmer’s work for the Crown Prosecution Service.

fullfact.org

 

[lemonjelly]

If white men had groomed and gang raped thousands of ethnic children and the police refused to investigate many cases because it might upset race relations, I would definitely post exactly the same as I am posting now.
I am not asking for opening more cases against Pakistani grooming gangs, I am asking for an investigation in to why orders were given not to investigate the raping of white children,, so it wouldn't cause racial tension. It isn't about the Pakistani grooming gangs, it is about the police and judiciary system not protecting children and leaving them to be raped and tortured again continuously.
It isn't about race for me, but the justice not protecting children, because it causes racial tension.
The cover up is not that we don't know about the crimes, but that we don't know who gave the orders not to protect children and leave them to be raped again.
There is a huge difference in what I am saying and think, than what you are saying i say and think.

85% of all gang rape assaults ARE carried out by white men.

 

[darlowolf64]

We both have different opinions and we are not getting anywhere with this.
I respect your opinion to think differently to me, but will bow out of this conversation now.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753381805422506114

but it won't fit your agenda

Oh and why hasn't the previous government of 14 years implemented the findings of the previous reports?

 

[Walshes Wolves]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753381805422506114

but it won't fit your agenda

Oh and why hasn't the previous government of 14 years implemented the findings of the previous reports?

I agree with you and have always criticised the Conservative government, they did nothing and like Farage and Musk they are using this for political reasons. I have made that clear over and over again.
The problem is with your link, he lied against about the Home Office Circular. At one time he said it was sent to police and then later when the government are under pressure he changes his story.
My agenda always has been that police officers made the decision not to arrest gang rapists, because of racial pressure. The orders came from higher up and as children later were killed and many continued to be gang raped, the people who informed the police not to investigate the rape of many young girls,often of 12 years of age, they continued to be raped and tortured.
It is not about the race that are committing these crimes, but the fact race was used not to arrest the purportrators, so the children continued to be raped and tortured.
It is the state inactivity to protect children that needs to be investigated, hopefully the criminals are being dealt with better now there is a Labour government.

 

[Walshes Wolves]

85% of all gang rape assaults ARE carried out by white men.

I am sure you are quite intelligent, so you are lying about statistics, to make a point which is irrelevant to me.

I will show why your statistics are nothing but propaganda and willful lies.

All humans are mortal

I am a human,

So I am mortal.

Two bits of correct information, so you can deduce the correct answer.


No try this.

The Cat is black,

The television is black,

So the cat is a television.

Here we are putting 2 truths to deduce an incorrect deduction.

Yours is worse than that because that is a genuine deduction made from 2 truths, to get the wrong answer. I get that everyone makes genuine mistakes and we are guessing the wrong answer, from 2 true sentences deducing that the 3rd sentence is probably right, however it wasn't.


Let me explain what you did.

We know we only have 30% to 40% of the total figures.

We don't know which police stations gave what percentage of the known perpetrators. Which makes a huge difference, because if you are in a predominantly white or ethnic area and have lots of one race living there and don't have information from your area it makes a huge difference to the outcome times the 40 police stations.

The ethnicity is given by the perpetrators not the police. We don't know what percentage of white or ethnic people gave their racial ethnicity.

First to me the percentage is irrelevant, but 85% of all grooming gangs ARE white people is both factually wrong, but more importantly irrelevant.

What you did was miss out all the information that was in your statistics to come out with a wrong answer.

Try concentrating on the children who continued to be raped, because the police didn't protect them.

 

[leedswolf]

I agree with you and have always criticised the Conservative government, they did nothing and like Farage and Musk they are using this for political reasons. I have made that clear over and over again.
The problem is with your link, he lied against about the Home Office Circular. At one time he said it was sent to police and then later when the government are under pressure he changes his story.
My agenda always has been that police officers made the decision not to arrest gang rapists, because of racial pressure. The orders came from higher up and as children later were killed and many continued to be gang raped, the people who informed the police not to investigate the rape of many young girls,often of 12 years of age, they continued to be raped and tortured.
It is not about the race that are committing these crimes, but the fact race was used not to arrest the purportrators, so the children continued to be raped and tortured.
It is the state inactivity to protect children that needs to be investigated, hopefully the criminals are being dealt with better now there is a Labour government.

No evidence Keir Starmer tried to block the prosecution of Muslim grooming gangs - Full Fact

Widely-shared posts on Facebook make an unsubstantiated claim about Mr Starmer’s work for the Crown Prosecution Service.

fullfact.org

 

[leedswolf]

Why the Rochdale 'grooming trial' wasn't about race

Focusing on the ethnicity of the men convicted of child sex offences in Rochdale detracts from the real issue: this was ultimately about the strong preying on the weak

www.theguardian.com

 

[leedswolf]

Fact check: Home Office memo advised police how to deal with vulnerable children

The Home Office circular did not contain the quote, or sentiments, that online users have attributed to it.

uk.news.yahoo.com

 

[Walshes Wolves]

No evidence Keir Starmer tried to block the prosecution of Muslim grooming gangs - Full Fact

Widely-shared posts on Facebook make an unsubstantiated claim about Mr Starmer’s work for the Crown Prosecution Service.

fullfact.org

I have never said Starmer tried to block the enquiry. I categorically stated he is a decent man who has done more than any one in the last government to protect the children. The only thing I said is he should have a national enquiry to catch the people who did give the orders. I have never suggested and don't believe that he has ever done anything wrong.

I can see vile comments on twitter from far right people, like Musk and others inciting hatred and understand why people are passed off listening to racist comments.

I am only concerned that the people who gave the orders to not protect young children from rape gangs and bthinkbthe people who made those decisions be held to account.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

I am sure you are quite intelligent, so you are lying about statistics, to make a point which is irrelevant to me.

I will show why your statistics are nothing but propaganda and willful lies.

All humans are mortal

I am a human,

So I am mortal.

Two bits of correct information, so you can deduce the correct answer.


No try this.

The Cat is black,

The television is black,

So the cat is a television.

Here we are putting 2 truths to deduce an incorrect deduction.

Yours is worse than that because that is a genuine deduction made from 2 truths, to get the wrong answer. I get that everyone makes genuine mistakes and we are guessing the wrong answer, from 2 true sentences deducing that the 3rd sentence is probably right, however it wasn't.


Let me explain what you did.

We know we only have 30% to 40% of the total figures.

We don't know which police stations gave what percentage of the known perpetrators. Which makes a huge difference, because if you are in a predominantly white or ethnic area and have lots of one race living there and don't have information from your area it makes a huge difference to the outcome times the 40 police stations.

The ethnicity is given by the perpetrators not the police. We don't know what percentage of white or ethnic people gave their racial ethnicity.

First to me the percentage is irrelevant, but 85% of all grooming gangs ARE white people is both factually wrong, but more importantly irrelevant.

What you did was miss out all the information that was in your statistics to come out with a wrong answer.

Try concentrating on the children who continued to be raped, because the police didn't protect them.

Please supply all the facts that back up your comments and criticisms, so those of us watching from the sidelines might understand.
what FACTS do you have for example to prove that 85% of grooming gangs are not white.
You say that we don't know what percentage of the perpetrators gave their ethnicity to the police, but even though i am not a copper, i guess if a pakistani and an english guy were stood before me, i might hazard a decent guess which was which.
Please clarify, before you totally de-rail an interesting thread.