Keir Starmer at it again..

[Templeton Peck]

Remember Keir Starmers 10 pledges when he was running to be leader?

https://www.clpd.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Keir-Starmers-10-Pledges.pdf

Every bit as comfortable with lying as Boris. But it's Starmer so it's fine apparently.

 

[Templeton Peck]

He's also hollowing out the state, flogging it off to Blackrock and creating 'enterprise' zones. Joy.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

So the supercars, the most polluting of cars, are fine.

I wonder why....

 

[MARKakaJIM]

Because it's impractical to expect such small companies to make that transition?

 

[Kenny]

Technically nothing changed for AM or McLaren. 2035 was still the end date for petrol/diesel as Labour hadn't acted on the change they said they would make. Instead they went into a consultation period with manufacturers, BVRLA etc and this is the outcome.

McLaren sell less than a 1000 vehicles a year and most of them are sold outside the UK. AM probably 5-6000 a year with a high % outside the UK. Presume whacking a battery in a supercar is a complex issue with regards to how people who are buying them feel. If you are spending 300k+ I guess you want a supercar and not a very quick car that sounds like a milk float. So allowing them an extra 5 years is a little bit of protection for their business model.

As it stands, the 2035 cut off still stands for them.

 

[Tredman]

Technically nothing changed for AM or McLaren. 2035 was still the end date for petrol/diesel as Labour hadn't acted on the change they said they would make. Instead they went into a consultation period with manufacturers, BVRLA etc and this is the outcome.

McLaren sell less than a 1000 vehicles a year and most of them are sold outside the UK. AM probably 5-6000 a year with a high % outside the UK. Presume whacking a battery in a supercar is a complex issue with regards to how people who are buying them feel. If you are spending 300k+ I guess you want a supercar and not a very quick car that sounds like a milk float. So allowing them an extra 5 years is a little bit of protection for their business model.

As it stands, the 2035 cut off still stands for them.

Pfft, away with your sense this is only happening as Tony Blair drives a mclaren.

 

[Kenny]

Pfft, away with your sense

Off brand for me I know!

Spend a ridiculous amount of my time each week talking about ZEV, EV, PHEV and other capital letters grouped together.

The 2030 move was an optimistic call from Labour so actually very pleased they took a step back and involved those who will be impacted to come up with a slightly better plan. Never going to have a perfect way to move to full EV.

Now if they can look at what price should be classed as expensive that would be handy.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Because it's impractical to expect such small companies to make that transition?

No, so the super rich still get their toys.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Pfft, away with your sense this is only happening as Tony Blair drives a mclaren.

Funny you should say that.

 

[Kenny]

The pressure of racing Max is beginning to show on Lando isnt it

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Because it's impractical to expect such small companies to make that transition?

Why is it any less practical for big companies? It's all relative isn't it?

 

[Del Woppio]

Really? The size of a company doesn't affect its readiness for enormous regulatory changes, or their affordability? The costs in cash, time and expertise don't just pro-rata down depending on your turnover

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

The costs in cash, time and expertise don't just pro-rata down depending on your turnover

Why not?

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

McLaren have been making electric cars for a few years now, and the Valhalla is AM's effort.

Just looks like a favour afforded to them to me, and if the Tories had done it I'm sure many of you would feel the same.

 

[Kenny]

Why is it any less practical for big companies? It's all relative isn't it?

You are partly right on the rich get their toys still but at this level a rushed move to EV only for a small car manufacturer who target a specific demographic it could kill them off.
So it is done with their future in mind as well.



Bigger manufacturers can offset the change. The ZEV mandate is easier for them to work to.
Look across the big global manufacturers and they are very likely to have an EV only brand or a brand that is fast moving to being EV only. That way they can move their other brands over to EV slower and now they can extend that transition via PHEV's.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

You are partly right on the rich get their toys still but at this level a rushed move to EV only for a small car manufacturer who target a specific demographic it could kill them off.
So it is done with their future in mind as well.



Bigger manufacturers can offset the change. The ZEV mandate is easier for them to work to.
Look across the big global manufacturers and they are very likely to have an EV only brand or a brand that is fast moving to being EV only. That way they can move their other brands over to EV slower and now they can extend that transition via PHEV's.

You clearly know more about it than me, but my cynicism doesn't just stop at the Tories

 

[Del Woppio]

Time and resource investment isn't just scalable in a neat way depending on your turnover. The same compliance task might take 100 hours for a small company and 100 hours for a multinational — but the larger one has dedicated staff, while a smaller one might have to pull someone off production or hire consultants.

Larger firms will have more cash reserves, legal teams, compliance departments, with experience or knowledg of dealing with these kinds of transitions. They can spread fixed costs over a much larger volume of production. Smaller companies can't.

To be clear, I'm not saying that the transition is impossible, or that they shouldn't be forced to make it. I'm just saying it's really naïve to think that the costs will just scale nicely, and if it's easy enough for business X, then the others should find it easy too.

 

[Kenny]

AM and McLaren have been named checked by the Government btw but others included such as Caterham, Morgan

Essentially manufacturers that build less than 2500 cars a year.

ZEV mandate says manufacturers need to have 28% of sales this year that are EV's. That number rises each year.
28% of such a small volume is asking them to drastically change their business model. They will simply go out of business.

Leaving them on the 2035 target is a sensible move. Yes the rich people benefit but then so do the general workers at the companies as they get to keep their jobs a bit longer

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

Time and resource investment isn't just scalable in a neat way depending on your turnover. The same compliance task might take 100 hours for a small company and 100 hours for a multinational — but the larger one has dedicated staff, while a smaller one might have to pull someone off production or hire consultants.

Larger firms will have more cash reserves, legal teams, compliance departments, with experience or knowledg of dealing with these kinds of transitions. They can spread fixed costs over a much larger volume of production. Smaller companies can't.

To be clear, I'm not saying that the transition is impossible, or that they shouldn't be forced to make it. I'm just saying it's really naïve to think that the costs will just scale nicely, and if it's easy enough for business X, then the others should find it easy too.

I can see your points, but we're talking about McLaren here, they're a worth around 2billion!

And AM are smaller, but they're still a FTSE250 company.

They're not Fred's Autos.

Edit: having checked I'm not sure McLaren construction and McLaren cars are the same group, but McLaren cars are worth 2.2billion.

 

[Jolemai]

Funny you should say that.
View attachment 13390

Not sure about the collar or the silver banding...