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Jeremy Corbyn

Lets not forget who Blair was matey with as well - Gaddafi, House of Saud, Assad and my favourite - Islam Karimov.
 
One man's terrorist and all that.

Our governments and many others support numerous groups which could be called terrorists. In particular the post colonial period in Africa is littered with British, French and American inspired coups resulting in broken democracy and autocratic leaders.

When we have fostered armed rebellion in numerous countries it is rather short sighted to label Castro as despicable etc. There are numerous people on Frank's WW1 who definitely deserve that vitriol though.
 
The United States spent decades trying to assassinate Castro and destabilise the economy of Cuba. Looks a lot like acts of terrorism and successive leaders of this country either supported and/or turned a blind eye. Equally, the US can be argued to have been acting in self defence.

Many countries, including our own, supported Al Qaeda when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan. We knew what they were.

The UK sells arms to countries who use them to commit human rights abuses. Saudi Arabia.

The UK interned Irish men and women without trial and, belatedly, have apologised for their actions on Bloody Sunday.

It is easy to condemn others if you aren't prepared to hold a mirror to your own actions. Castro had faults, huge faults, but pretending somehow we can call ourselves up as paragons of virtue is dishonest.

Corbyn has never made any secret of his involvement with the nationalist movement in Ireland but it is a stretch to state this means he supports terrorism. Those are politically motivated claims and to his shame Cameron used them to try and win a commons vote for military intervention in Syria. Throwing the same allegation around to try and win a debate on an Internet message board because someone called you out is a bit lightweight.
 
Corbyn has never made any secret of his involvement with the nationalist movement in Ireland but it is a stretch to state this means he supports terrorism. Those are politically motivated claims and to his shame Cameron used them to try and win a commons vote for military intervention in Syria
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But he does score own goals too frequently with ill thought comments at inappropriate times. He may not be a terrorist supporter but there are times he ought to shut the fuck up and doesnt and times when he should be shouting from the rooftops and doesnt see Brexit.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
But he does score own goals too frequently with ill thought comments at inappropriate times. He may not be a terrorist supporter but there are times he ought to shut the $#@! up and doesnt and times when he should be shouting from the rooftops and doesnt see Brexit.
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I guess that depends on the filter you view his comments through. He was one of the few during the Brexit debate who tried to explain his position on the issue and for this he was pilloried from all sides. The majority trotted out soundbites, lies and half truths and this was acceptable.

Corbyn is the wrong man at the right time - even he knows he was the last on the list from the left to try, he was put forward by the left of the party because everyone else had tried and failed. Visage summed his performance as leader perfectly well, he isn't one and this is magnified because the bulk of the PLP don't want to be led by him. He can't get the support of the media so anything he says is manipulated to serve a particular agenda.

Clive Lewis would be a much better leader in my opinion but he can't become leader because he won't get enough nominations from the PLP to stand. This means Corbyn has to continue until the make up of the PLP is more favourable or just give up...and if Corbyn walks away the membership in the Labour Party would haemorrhage.

But he is not a supporter of terrorism, he talks strongly about the consequences of armed conflict and campaigns against it - be it "terrorists" or governments. It is a point of view that needs to be heard regardless of whether you agree with him.
 
How difficult is it to understand that there is a difference between having sympathy for the concept of Irish Republicanism and supporting the IRA?
 
Of all the things you could criticise Corbyn/Labour for at the moment, the comments about Castro are pretty low down on the list and it just comes across as petty point scoring.

If you're going to have a go then focus on the complete lack of opposition to the Government Corbyn is presiding over. You could argue that the Greens and the Lib Dems are currently doing a better job.

I probably agree with Corbyn's views on a lot of things but he is not the man who should be leading Labour. I certainly can't see myself voting for them any time soon.

Clive Lewis I have a lot of time for. I agree he could make a better leader.
 
Tyrannosaurus Dan said:
Of all the things you could criticise Corbyn/Labour for at the moment, the comments about Castro are pretty low down on the list and it just comes across as petty point scoring.

If you're going to have a go then focus on the complete lack of opposition to the Government Corbyn is presiding over. You could argue that the Greens and the Lib Dems are currently doing a better job.

I probably agree with Corbyn's views on a lot of things but he is not the man who should be leading Labour. I certainly can't see myself voting for them any time soon.

Clive Lewis I have a lot of time for. I agree he could make a better leader.
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It mystifies me how Corbyn won such an overwhelming majority in the leadership election. But Labour members made their choice. I wonder what will happen after Corbyn loses the next general election. I would not be surprised to see the warring factions split up, just as they did in the 1980's.

And while I have no time whatsoever for Corbyn, he is the leader of her majesty's opposition. But under his leadership you are correct that they are not holding the Government to account for their actions. And that should be of paramount importance to the official opposition.
 
FrankMunro-371 said:
And while I have no time whatsoever for Corbyn, he is the leader of her majesty's opposition. But under his leadership you are correct that they are not holding the Government to account for their actions. And that should be of paramount importance to the official opposition.
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Genuine question as I don't understand this comment. Corbyn's opposition has made the government do around 30 or so U-turns already (a link to this was posted earlier in the thread if you need reminding) so there's obviously some pressure being applied. So what do you mean by Labour not holding this government to account? What should the Opposition party (which ever it is at any given time) be doing?
 
The singular most import role of opposition is to provide the option of an alternative government. Regardless of whether you agree with Corbyn or not, he plainly is not delivering on that measure.
 
Jolemai said:
What opposition do you see those two parties doing, if any?
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In terms of in parliament then there's not a great deal they can do due to a lack of MP's. I could be wrong but they seem to be more vocal with their criticism of the government, and the shambolic Brexit process, than Labour.

The Greens & Lib Dems have worked together to try and defeat Zac Goldsmith in the by-election. It would have been good to see Labour also work with them seeing as they have no chance of winning the seat but the Lib Dems do.
 
Jolemai said:
Genuine question as I don't understand this comment. Corbyn's opposition has made the government do around 30 or so U-turns already (a link to this was posted earlier in the thread if you need reminding) so there's obviously some pressure being applied. So what do you mean by Labour not holding this government to account? What should the Opposition party (which ever it is at any given time) be doing?
Click to expand...

Any Government that has a slender majority can be forced to amend any new bills they wish to bring in. And the SNP and the rebels on the Government benches are causing them the most problems.

I think the Labour Party should be holding the Government to account an awful lot more than they are doing. But while Labour are at war within the parliamentary party that will not happen.
 
Thoughts on this one? The SNP have tabled a motion which calls for an investigation of Tony Blair for allegedly misleading Parliament over his case for the 2003 war. Naturally, the PLP have urged Corbyn to discipline those Labour MPs who wish to back the motion which has cross party support.

Clicky. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't imo.
 
I have no doubt that Corbyn would want to back the motion. He has long since been a fierce critic of Blair and the Iraq war. And on this occasion, I do feel for Corbyn. Whatever he does will be seen as wrong by certain factions within the Labour party. And while I disagree with most things that Corbyn says, I have never doubted that he is a man of principal, and as such I expect him to back the motion.
 
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...share-for-7-years-poll-suggests-politics-live

State of the parties

Conservatives: 44% (up 2 points from ICM earlier this month)

Labour: 28% (no change)

Ukip: 12% (up 1)

Lib Dems: 7% (down 2)

Greens: 4% (up 1)

Conservative lead: 16 points (up 2)

ICM’s director Martin Boon urges caution about attributing the two-point increase in the Tory lead just to the autumn statement. But he says the Conservative score, 44%, is the highest the party has achieved since October 2009 and just one point off the highest it has ever hit in Guardian/ICM polling going back to 1992. The Tories have reached 45% on just five occasions, three of them just after John Major’s election victory in 1992 and two after the 2008 financial crash.

Boon also says the figures for Labour are “bleak”. The tables (pdf) show the Tories ahead of Labour amongst every social grade, even DEs (where the Tories are on 33% and Labour 32%). The Tories are also ahead amongst all age groups, apart from 18 to 24-year-olds.

Economic confidence

Respondents were asked to think about the economy, their financial position and their ability to keep up with the cost of living, and were then asked “how confident do you feel about things at the moment?”

Confident (very or fairly): 53%

Not confidence (not very or not at all): 43%

Overall that amounts to a +10 confidence measures (those who are confident minus those who are not). Boon says this quite a drop from August, when the net measure was +34, but that it is still relatively good. Over the last decade the net measure has often been negative.
 
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