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Jeremy Corbyn

tredman said:
With any luck the rules on charging foreign visitors for using GPs will include ex-pats - it definitely should do.
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Oh yes, and why is that? I spent the best part of fourty years working and paying taxes (a lot) et al in the UK, so because i chose to live elsewhere , what does that make me? a Syrian refugee?

I don't come back to the UK for treatment, but as a citizen of the UK who payed lots and has taken advantage of basically fuck all, where does that put your little Britain bollocks.

Jeez some of you guys need to get a life or at least get out of your cocoon.

People are people! not pawns in your fantasy political ideals.

Whether you like THM or not. if he has paid his dues like anyone else, he is entitled, or did you forget we are in the EU.
 
This level of agency staff looks to me like pure bad planning - probably a good idea in theory when outside the day to day business but terrible in practice when on the frontline.
 
Boozad said:
Through the agency, not the employer. Plus some agencies only supply contractors who don't pay PAYE or get a payslip.
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Yeah, that's what I said, they are on the agencies payroll. Like IT consultants, who have their own limited companies and invoice for their services.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
Oh yes, and why is that? I spent the best part of fourty years working and paying taxes (a lot) et al in the UK, so because i chose to live elsewhere , what does that make me? a Syrian refugee?

I don't come back to the UK for treatment, but as a citizen of the UK who payed lots and has taken advantage of basically fuck all, where does that put your little Britain bollocks.

Jeez some of you guys need to get a life or at least get out of your cocoon.

People are people! not pawns in your fantasy political ideals.

Whether you like THM or not. if he has paid his dues like anyone else, he is entitled, or did you forget we are in the EU.
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Why shouldn't be done like the NI system? Plenty of expats have not lived or contributed here for many years, but come back for free treatment - is that right?

We pay into the NI system and its tracked - when I was an expat i continued to pay into it, its easily trackable - they should use this to judge if you pay. Or if you are EU you use the EHIC card.
 
Penk Wolf said:
Yeah, that's what I said, they are on the agencies payroll. Like IT consultants, who have their own limited companies and invoice for their services.
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Contractors who submit invoices for payment don't usually pay PAYE do they? I know the ones at our place don't.
 
Boozad said:
Contractors who submit invoices for payment don't usually pay PAYE do they? I know the ones at our place don't.
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I guess it depends what their accounts advises, but in most cases they'll pay themselves through dividends and taxed on self assessment rather than PAYE.
 
tredman said:
Why shouldn't be done like the NI system? Plenty of expats have not lived or contributed here for many years, but come back for free treatment - is that right?

We pay into the NI system and its tracked - when I was an expat i continued to pay into it, its easily trackable - they should use this to judge if you pay. Or if you are EU you use the EHIC card.
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So if you pay and never use the system , what is the time constraint that your payments (used by everyone else) logs off?

Surely you continued to pay into NI for your pension, rather than the odd chance you might nip back to the UK for a free apendectomy.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
So if you pay and never use the system , what is the time constraint that your payments (used by everyone else) logs off?

Surely you continued to pay into NI for your pension, rather than the odd chance you might nip back to the UK for a free apendectomy.
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Yes, but why shouldn't there be a similar system for health tourism? Most countries have a contributory scheme - we don't that's why we are in such a mess over paying benefits to EU people who have just arrived.

Its not for me to say how long you pay vs what you get - but its fundamentally wrong for people who have not / do not contribute, or live here, to assume they can and always will get free healthcare and benefits
 
tredman said:
Yes, but why shouldn't there be a similar system for health tourism? Most countries have a contributory scheme - we don't that's why we are in such a mess over paying benefits to EU people who have just arrived.

Its not for me to say how long you pay vs what you get - but its fundamentally wrong for people who have not / do not contribute, or live here, to assume they can and always will get free healthcare and benefits
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Most initial medical treatment here, if I ever need it, is free. Ok if i need a transplant then that's different, and frankly i would rather get one on the street in Mombai.

However, the contributions i have paid and never used over 40 years in the UK, would make half the British citizens who live permanently off the state quake in their boots.

So maybe there should be a minimum quota rather than a "leave the UK on Monday and get fuck all on Tuesday" policy which you guys seem to advocate.

EU citizenship comes with a zillion guarantees, re health and welfare etc, and trust me, not one of them is worth fuck all.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
Most initial medical treatment here, if I ever need it, is free. Ok if i need a transplant then that's different, and frankly i would rather get one on the street in Mombai.

However, the contributions i have paid and never used over 40 years in the UK, would make half the British citizens who live permanently off the state quake in their boots.

So maybe there should be a minimum quota rather than a "leave the UK on Monday and get fuck all on Tuesday" policy which you guys seem to advocate.

EU citizenship comes with a zillion guarantees, re health and welfare etc, and trust me, not one of them is worth fuck all.
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Never used the roads, schools, college, university, doctors, trains, bins emptied, etc?

I don't agree with tredman by the way, just surprised you don't think you've used the services.
 
I'm not even sure I agree with tredman ;)

That said we have a problem where people don't want to pay higher taxes, but do have a sense of entitlement that the state should pay for what ever they need.

It doesn't and won't add up.
 
Penk Wolf said:
What a load of bollocks. If they are on their payroll, which I believe they are, then they should be an employee of the agency and treated in the same ways as any employee would be with contracts and rights, etc.
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They don't have to pay sick pay (ie long term sick pay) so they would argue productivity levels are higher and the benefits outweigh the costs. To me that's a quick fix rather than trying to understand why stress levels/absence are increasing.

http://www.cipd.co.uk/pm/peoplemana...related-sickness-absence-among-nhs-staff.aspx
 
Penk Wolf said:
What a load of bollocks. If they are on their payroll, which I believe they are, then they should be an employee of the agency and treated in the same ways as any employee would be with contracts and rights, etc.
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Not sure whether that refers to the explanation or the situation!

The starting point for employment rights is to determine whether they are an employee or a worker. There are some things that are common to both - for example the right to have a payslip, right to paid leave, right not to be discriminated against etc. These common features can't be used to define one or the other.

Generally speaking there are three things to look for. One, is there an obligation to provide and undertake work - in other words can the individual refuse to do a shift or can the employer refuse to offer a shift. Two, does the employer provide all the equipment required to do the work? Three, who directs the work?

The answer to these three questions is not the agency so they can be discounted as an employer - if they happen to provide the payroll services that alone does not constitute an employment relationship.

If someone says yes to 70 consecutive offers of work from the same employer but through an agency but declines offer 71 - because they can do so it means they are not an employee. However, they are entitled to equal treatment because it is likely they will have had 12 weeks continous service so will have acquired additional rights.

This doesn't fit all circumstances though and there have been examples where people have acquired the statUS of employee over time even though they started out as a worker.

For the vast majority of temporary workers, their rights at work are significantly less than for employees.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Not sure whether that refers to the explanation or the situation!

The starting point for employment rights is to determine whether they are an employee or a worker. There are some things that are common to both - for example the right to have a payslip, right to paid leave, right not to be discriminated against etc. These common features can't be used to define one or the other.

Generally speaking there are three things to look for. One, is there an obligation to provide and undertake work - in other words can the individual refuse to do a shift or can the employer refuse to offer a shift. Two, does the employer provide all the equipment required to do the work? Three, who directs the work?

The answer to these three questions is not the agency so they can be discounted as an employer - if they happen to provide the payroll services that alone does not constitute an employment relationship.

If someone says yes to 70 consecutive offers of work from the same employer but through an agency but declines offer 71 - because they can do so it means they are not an employee. However, they are entitled to equal treatment because it is likely they will have had 12 weeks continous service so will have acquired additional rights.

This doesn't fit all circumstances though and there have been examples where people have acquired the statUS of employee over time even though they started out as a worker.

For the vast majority of temporary workers, their rights at work are significantly less than for employees.
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Sorry, it was to the situation.
 
I know things have improved vastly since I was a temp, as I can't remember getting holiday pay, sick pay, etc. and they also used to lay you off prior to 6 months and then take you back on the next week to prevent you getting any rights.

I really don't understand why temporary workers shouldn't get the same rights from the agency as an employee would from their company.
 
Penk Wolf said:
Never used the roads, schools, college, university, doctors, trains, bins emptied, etc?

I don't agree with tredman by the way, just surprised you don't think you've used the services.
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Of course i used roads and paid road tax, bins emptied etc paid council tax, never went to college or university , started work in advertising at 16.

I had a vasectomy and paid privately, ok yes i did get stiched up in A&E a few times, and obviously took the kids to the doctors, dentists private, but i'm sure i am still in credit somewhere along the way.
 
Penk Wolf said:
I know things have improved vastly since I was a temp, as I can't remember getting holiday pay, sick pay, etc. and they also used to lay you off prior to 6 months and then take you back on the next week to prevent you getting any rights.

I really don't understand why temporary workers shouldn't get the same rights from the agency as an employee would from their company.
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Because they are not employed by the agency.
 
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