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Jeremy Corbyn

Aaand we are back to labour getting in to power being more important than saving the country from a catestrophically bad decision
 
tredman said:
If he can't convince me, a member of the Labour party before i could even vote, then he might have a difficult time convincing anyone outside of the zealots.
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“Your dear leader” “zealots”. Is this how you view 60% of party members of the party you are a member of? I get that there are people who don’t like or agree with Corbyn but this constant passive aggressive demonisation of people with differing views (and it is from both sides) is puerile, boring and counter productive.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
“Your dear leader” “zealots”. Is this how you view 60% of party members of the party you are a member of? I get that there are people who don’t like or agree with Corbyn but this constant passive aggressive demonisation of people with differing views (and it is from both sides) is puerile, boring and counter productive.
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Ex-member thanks.

What do you expect? Corbyn, in common with most leavers, completely refuses to countenance any other views than his own. He may as well wear a badge saying 'you lost, get over it'.
 
tredman said:
Ex-member thanks.

What do you expect? Corbyn, in common with most leavers, completely refuses to countenance any other views than his own. He may as well wear a badge saying 'you lost, get over it'.
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He has, on multiple occasions, stated that he will follow Labour Party policy which is “all other options” which must therefore include a second vote and the possibility of remain.

I voted remain but believe Parliament should fail before we even consider overturning the result of the referendum because this Parliament has consistently stated and acted with the intention of leaving the EU, this is the mandate of this Parliament. In my opinion, it should be a new Parliament with a mandate to do otherwise that seeks to overturn the 2016 either by explicitly stating an intention to remain or by a manifesto pledge for a second vote.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
He has, on multiple occasions, stated that he will follow Labour Party policy which is “all other options” which must therefore include a second vote and the possibility of remain.

I voted remain but believe Parliament should fail before we even consider overturning the result of the referendum because this Parliament has consistently stated and acted with the intention of leaving the EU, this is the mandate of this Parliament. In my opinion, it should be a new Parliament with a mandate to do otherwise that seeks to overturn the 2016 either by explicitly stating an intention to remain or by a manifesto pledge for a second vote.
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I agree with the second paragraph. I'm as remain as they come but I really don't see going to a second ref in the current circumstances as viable option. I'd prefer not to have any more referenda ever. I'd rather have the politicians in our representative democracy do their fucking job.
 
SLA said:
I agree with the second paragraph. I'm as remain as they come but I really don't see going to a second ref in the current circumstances as viable option. I'd prefer not to have any more referenda ever. I'd rather have the politicians in our representative democracy do their fucking job.
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Indeed. Referenda are a poor substitute for our representative democracy, we don’t do referenda well or often for it to take precedence over our primary democratic machinery. But, it was Parliament that sanctioned the referendum, parliament that invoked Article 50 and parliament that should be held accountable. Government set out to agree a deal and if/when they fail they have no mandate to remain in place. The way to change a government is usually but not always an election.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Indeed. Referenda are a poor substitute for our representative democracy, we don’t do referenda well or often for it to take precedence over our primary democratic machinery. But, it was Parliament that sanctioned the referendum, parliament that invoked Article 50 and parliament that should be held accountable. Government set out to agree a deal and if/when they fail they have no mandate to remain in place. The way to change a government is usually but not always an election.
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That makes logical reading
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Indeed. Referenda are a poor substitute for our representative democracy, we don’t do referenda well or often for it to take precedence over our primary democratic machinery. But, it was Parliament that sanctioned the referendum, parliament that invoked Article 50 and parliament that should be held accountable. Government set out to agree a deal and if/when they fail they have no mandate to remain in place. The way to change a government is usually but not always an election.
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Referenda in the UK is (I believe) a recent phenomena? We've had 3 that applies to the UK and all 3 in the last 40ish years?
 
D-Cam was addicted to them. They were ideal for him and his style of governing. If it goes right, he takes the credit. Goes wrong, well that's the people for you. They voted for it.
 
Johnny75 said:
Labour MP's worried about saving their own skin and not the good of the country. And to think these fuckers blame Tories for being Tories.
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Yep, two sides of the same shit coin (it's a load of bollocks anyway, Sammy the Sparky from Sunderland isn't going to vote Tory if Labour back a second referendum and articulate the case properly, and UKIP aren't coming back).
 
Deutsch Wolf said:
Yep, two sides of the same shit coin (it's a load of bollocks anyway, Sammy the Sparky from Sunderland isn't going to vote Tory if Labour back a second referendum and articulate the case properly, and UKIP aren't coming back).
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It's daft isn't it? MP's all over the house are simply unfit for the purpose of being an MP. Our problem is what do we do about it?
 
Given the absolute state of the two main parties and the nonsense that is FPTP in the modern world, we need an entirely new system - new parties, some form of PR, fresh ideas. Parliament has to become massively more diverse and clearly the Lords is an anachronism (albeit an anachronism that we've been grateful for in recent years as they have stopped the very worst excesses of this awful Tory decade).

Will not happen though.

Look at me right now - I will never, ever, ever, ever vote Tory, and I'm on the verge of abandoning Labour forever too. Whatever I choose doesn't matter because of where I live - my vote has absolutely zero impact. Now I would like to think of myself as at least reasonably politically engaged, and yet I'm locked out on both fronts. How can that make sense?
 
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