Jeremy Corbyn

[Templeton Peck]

should it be about what he wants? or should he be representing the views of the party?

He's following the motion voted for at conference.
Does the deal pass 6 tests?
If no vote it down.
Try to force GE and if that fails go for second vote.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

How come he (or someone close to him, Seumas Milne probably) deleted Starmer's clause about a second vote in last week's statement then?

He wants Brexit, mate. Just accept it.

 

[Templeton Peck]

How come he (or someone close to him, Seumas Milne probably) deleted Starmer's clause about a second vote in last week's statement then?

He wants Brexit, mate. Just accept it.

People have been wrong about Corbyn before but we'll soon find out I guess. I don't see what more he can do though given the numbers in the HoC and the fact the Tory rebels don't actually rebel.

Cable has tabled a motion asking for a 2nd referendum. We're about to see if a majority exists for it.

 

[Johnny75]

John McDonnell along with Chris Bryant and Leanne Wood have some interesting opinions on Chruchill

Churchill may well have made mistakes in his life and clearly the loss of a miners life is one that played on his mind but to call him 'villain' and to say he would not be welcome in your town is myopic to say the least.

McDonnell quoted as a Poundland Lenin is the most apt description I can think of for both him and Corbyn.

 

[Tredman]

Churchill is a tough one, I've read quite a few books on him (Roy Jenkins is the best). He was an outstanding war time leader, but there is no doubt he was racist and directly contributed to millions dying in India. Its right that we shouldn't judge him by current norms, but its equally right we shouldn't ignore the many, many Indians and Africans who suffered because of his indifference to them.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm more shocked that Leanne Wood constructed a sentence that didn't begin with "In Wales".

 

[Tyrannosaurus Dan]

I think it is certainly worth remembering the darker side to his political career when looking at his legacy. There is lots to admire but definitely also plenty to criticise. He seems to have a fair bit of innocent blood on his hands.

From the little I have read, I don't think he is the 'greatest Briton to have ever lived' but he is probably no more villainous than many other 20th century politicians.

 

[Johnny75]

Churchill is a tough one, I've read quite a few books on him (Roy Jenkins is the best). He was an outstanding war time leader, but there is no doubt he was racist and directly contributed to millions dying in India. Its right that we shouldn't judge him by current norms, but its equally right we shouldn't ignore the many, many Indians and Africans who suffered because of his indifference to them.

And that's what I would expect from most politicians but the three mentioned have displayed the kind of soundbite politics that we have nowadays and that's really not a good thing.

 

[Tredman]

And that's what I would expect from most politicians but the three mentioned have displayed the kind of soundbite politics that we have nowadays and that's really not a good thing.

That's the nature of our politics, but also the nature of the reporting which the BBC and other use - they pick out the sensationalist parts, you could easily quote me above as:

there is no doubt he was racist and directly contributed to millions dying in India

and it gives a similar impression

 

[Lord Knows]

Believe what you will

https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/tonypandy-and-llanelli/

Or this

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/01/winston-churchill-british-empire-colonialism

 

[Jolemai]

Many Welsh, especially those in Plaid, share this viewpoint. With Tonypandy just being up the road from me, it's one of things that's remembered still and brought up every-so often.

 

[Johnny75]

Believe what you will

https://winstonchurchill.hillsdale.edu/tonypandy-and-llanelli/

Or this

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2018/01/winston-churchill-british-empire-colonialism

Seems to me that both articles state the same thing in regards to the miners in Wales. Churchill charged the Police with sorting the strike out with the soldiers held back in reserve.

The second article has some pertinent criticisms of Churchill but is easily disregarded for the assumptions and conclusions it comes to by taking his quotes out of context and presenting them as facts. It is quite obviously biased and to a point laughable in its assertions.

 

[Johnny75]

Many Welsh, especially those in Plaid, share this viewpoint. With Tonypandy just being up the road from me, it's one of things that's remembered still and brought up every-so often.

How many people were there to remember this?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'd forgotten that "Greatest Briton" poll. Diana was 3rd, Thatcher was 16th, bizarrely Michael Crawford was 17th and somehow Boy George made the top 50.

Reassuring in a way that this country was still ridiculous in 2002, I was just more oblivious to it then.

 

[Tredman]

From the sounds of it just be thankful Dean Saunders didn't make an appearance.

 

[lemonjelly]

How many people were there to remember this?

Whether people were there or not is irrelevant. Am I not allowed to enjoy the beatles music as I wasn't there when it was released?

On this debate, perhaps it serves as a reminder that people generally are not one dimensional. There are differing aspects to their character, brought out by different contexts and experiences and influences. Human beings can switch from being complete gentlemen to serial killers in a moment. Accepting that we all have different aspects to our character is important. Likewise accepting the same for those in the public eye is important. For political debate, it may help develop this, as instead of being a lifetime voter for a specific party, one can vote for the party which reflects their aims at that moment in time.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

From the sounds of it just be thankful Dean Saunders didn't make an appearance.

Becks and Bobby Moore were the only two footballers to make the cut. Now I love Becks more than is healthy, but again...

Bono also got in there. I'm sure he'll have been delighted with that.

Edit: So did Bob Geldof :icon_lol: I mean there is literally one qualification for this.

 

[Johnny75]

Whether people were there or not is irrelevant. Am I not allowed to enjoy the beatles music as I wasn't there when it was released?

You might want to look at context here

Many Welsh, especially those in Plaid, share this viewpoint. With Tonypandy just being up the road from me, it's one of things that's remembered still and brought up every-so often.

Hence why I asked.

Also, the Beatles music is recorded, the Tonypandy incident will no doubt be recorded but interpreted differently depending on which side you were on. A bit difficult to do that with music, you either listen to it or don't.

 

[Penk Wolf]

John Peel, Tony Blair and Robbie Williams?

I surprised Mark Rankine wasn't voted in.

 

[SLA]

I like that we found a place for the Unknown Warrior. He was a top guy.