Jeremy Corbyn

[Johnny75]

Yep. There's been a group of right wing Labour MPs who've not been happy with Corbyn since day 1. It's shrunk over time but there's still a few there. It was heavily rumoured Umunna might go yesterday but he's since denied it.

I guess when you're so far left everybody is right wing.

 

[sycophantia]

There's not too many countries I'd emigrate to, possibly one of Scandavians or New Zealand, yes there are a lot issues here but overall its good and most of the people are decent, its just we all tend to focus on the worst parts of society.

 

[Elephant Pyjamas]

When we finally rid ourselves of Corbyn he will go down as the worst leader of the party in a generation, possibly ever.

Well that depends on what side of the fence you sit on. Membership is at a long term high, and Corbyn increased Labour's vote share more than any other Labour leader since 1945, so you'd be hard pushed to make a coherent argument for that statement.

 

[Del Woppio]

Given most people agree that this is the worst government in living memory and he *still* wouldn't get close to number ten if there was a general election tomorrow, I'd say it's not too outlandish tbh.

 

[Deleted Cyber]

Sorry Corbyn to me is the left side version of Rees Mogg. The fact that the left of the labour party support him just shows the folly. The wrong Milliband was elected. I am convinced David would have trounced the Tories.

 

[Templeton Peck]

I guess when you're so far left everybody is right wing.

Corbyn aint that far left but the likes of Umunna essentially sign up to soft Thatcherism which makes them centre right. UK politics has been so right wing for so long we now see owning the railways as Lenin on acid.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Theres only so many times you cant tell people to fuck off out of the party before they do just that.

And while those MPs may not retain their seats, a lot of them will retain enough votes to see Labour lose them. When we finally rid ourselves of Corbyn he will go down as the worst leader of the party in a generation, possibly ever.

So the guy that made Labour more erm, Labour than they have been for 30 years is the worst leader in a generation? Yeah OK.

 

[Johnny75]

Corbyn aint that far left but the likes of Umunna essentially sign up to soft Thatcherism which makes them centre right. UK politics has been so right wing for so long we now see owning the railways as Lenin on acid.

Are you saying nationalisation isn't left wing?

 

[visage]

So the guy that made Labour more erm, Labour than they have been for 30 years is the worst leader in a generation? Yeah OK.

Taking over the party and being the poster boy for an ever diminishing cabal isn't leadership.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Are you saying nationalisation isn't left wing?

Well it always seems to be popular so I'd guess that puts it on the centre ground.

 

[Johnny75]

Well it always seems to be popular so I'd guess that puts it on the centre ground.

You mean like Brexit?

And just because you think a policy is popular doesn't make it centre ground. It's a left wing policy and any number of texts will tell you that but I'm sure you know that already.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Are you saying nationalisation isn't left wing?

It isn’t explicitly a left wing ideology but is perceived as such because it lends self to the socialist idea of “owning the means of production” and is heavily associated with the post war Labour nationalisation program - but nationalisation existed before socialism and 1945. Joseph Chamberlain, a radical Liberal, adopted elements of nationalism (albeit on a local level) as Mayor of Birmingham in the 19th Century. There are many examples of nationalised industries across the EU, France under Macron (hardly left wing) recently nationalised a ship yard as a protective measure.

 

[Templeton Peck]

You mean like Brexit?

And just because you think a policy is popular doesn't make it centre ground. It's a left wing policy and any number of texts will tell you that but I'm sure you know that already.

Well you can define it as the place where the majority of the electorate sit on a given issue. 60% now favour renationalisation of rail.

Or you could look at it more objectively and say that a truly centrist position would see the state as equally valuable to running the economy as the private sector.

The UK economic policy of the last 40 years has been right wing in ideology. Small state, erosion of workers rights, preference of private sector to solve problems etc. People like Umunna essentially sign up for most of this but with tweaks. That's fine as a position to hold but economically it puts him centre-right as opposed to just centre.

 

[Johnny75]

Haven't you just proved my point? We have had centre right politics for 40 years until the last 5 where we have veered more to the right.

It still makes any Nationalisation policy left wing.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Haven't you just proved my point? We have had centre right politics for 40 years until the last 5 where we have veered more to the right.

It still makes any Nationalisation policy left wing.

My argument is that UK political discourse has moved so far right that anything that deviates is seen as 'far left' which was your original description. Labour's 2017 manifesto was centre-left as opposed to far left. If you feel that Labour are 'far left' I'd be intrigued to see where you think Clegg, Umunna and Blair sit on the spectrum.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Blair is centrist. He is just far enough left to avoid crashing into the oncoming Ken Clarke on the other side of the road.

 

[Johnny75]

My argument is that UK political discourse has moved so far right that anything that deviates is seen as 'far left' which was your original description. Labour's 2017 manifesto was centre-left as opposed to far left. If you feel that Labour are 'far left' I'd be intrigued to see where you think Clegg, Umunna and Blair sit on the spectrum.

Whichever way you cut it Nationalisation of anything isn't centrist or centre left. It is left wing and the 2017 manifesto had plenty of Nationalisation in it. There may have been some centrist policies in there but McDonnell is definitely far left along with the majority of Momentum members and the manifesto was driven by their ideology.

 

[Tredman]

I wouldn't say nationalisation of infrastructure is left wing, pretty much all European countries do it and none of them are left wing (and concidentally have much more resilient services).

 

[Johnny75]

I wouldn't say nationalisation of infrastructure is left wing, pretty much all European countries do it and none of them are left wing (and concidentally have much more resilient services).

I think you're confusing left wing policy with left wing party. For the record, a good centrist party will have a good mix of all policies, which is what Blair did.

Corbyn and McDonell are certainly left wing and their policies reflect that. I would also add most of Europe is more left than we are.

 

[Tredman]

I think you're confusing left wing policy with left wing party. For the record, a good centrist party will have a good mix of all policies, which is what Blair did.

Corbyn and McDonell are certainly left wing and their policies reflect that. I would also add most of Europe is more left than we are.

Is that not what was said above though, our perception of what is left wing in the UK has been skewed by having very right wing governments such as Thatcher?

It's a tad self-centred to say everyone else is left, whereas we are centre - might the answer be that the policies pursued in the UK over the last 40 years have been various shades of right wing (occasionally extreme) and centrist. Corbyn looks very left wing to us, but compared to to Atlee, Wilson and Foot he really isn't.