Jeremy Corbyn

[darlowolf64]

This is a victory for the democratic process of leader selection that Miliband brought in. That in itself is a good thing. What seems to be a concern is the level of Blairite dismay at the labour party returning to where it was always envisaged in the political spectrum. Corbyn has a lot more in common with Ramsay MacDonald, Attlee or Aneurin Bevan than he does with the likes of Tony Blair.

As others have said, if they don't like the result there is nothing to stop them setting up a new political party. I don't think they would get that many votes though. Everything is being put in place for an early coup. The back bench reaction to Corbyn's first PMQs could be interesting.

If the Parliamentary Members try that shite, there will be an almighty backlash from the grass roots members

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Yes, there will. But the Blairite side of the party has had it's sense of entitlement smashed up and I think they will expect to get away with it. Going to be a rude awakening.

 

[Tony Towner]

For the reasons stated earlier in the thread, I didn't want Corbyn to win and do feel that the right wing press will make him unelectable in the key seats Labour will need to win in 2020....BUT 59.5% is a thumping mandate in a 4 horse race and even if the odd Tory got through the vetting process I doubt this made any material difference to the result and feel the PLP should respect the democratic will of its voters

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Yes, there will. But the Blairite side of the party has had it's sense of entitlement smashed up and I think they will expect to get away with it. Going to be a rude awakening.

That side of the party needs to move on, Blair left office eight years ago. Look where endlessly pining for Thatcher left the Tories. Blairism like Thatcherism was a product of its time, you can't live in the past.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I agree wholeheartedly. The problem is, whether you approve of Thatcherism or not (I can't imagine which side of the coin you are there DW!!!) it was perceived within the halls of Conservative power as hugely successful. When it went tits up the party found it very difficult to break away from and therefore Blair got effectively a clear run at a second election victory. This is the tipping point when the Labour party decides whether to go down the same route with Blairism, or to break new ground.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Delighted! Just joined up as a full party member. I've been following politics properly for 20 years and this is the first time I've been excited about a mainstream political party. Finally the public have a clear choice ahead of them. He may not be the next PM but SOMEONE had to be out there making the counter argument to the austerity narrative. Hopefully the political conversation in this country will move back to the centre. Fucking tremendous.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Hopefully the political conversation in this country will move back to the centre. Fucking tremendous.

I love this line TP! In just a few words you have shown the massive rightwards lurch in labour under the Blairite leadership. Do you consider them to have actually been just to the right of the centre, or is Corbyn lurching it that far back that even with Cameron on the right the debate will be in centrist middle ground?

 

[Templeton Peck]

I love this line TP! In just a few words you have shown the massive rightwards lurch in labour under the Blairite leadership. Do you consider them to have actually been just to the right of the centre, or is Corbyn lurching it that far back that even with Cameron on the right the debate will be in centrist middle ground?

I'd say that under Blair/Brown/Ed Labour were a centre right party -economically anyway. Corbyn's politics are actually fairly centrist - he supports a mixed economy for example rather than the total state ownership a socialist might go for. Just by virtue of being anti-austerity Corbyn will move the debate leftwards. It will be interesting to see exactly what sort of debates the two of them have as unlike previous Labour leaders Corbyn will be questioning the very basis of Conservative economic policy.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Given Corbyn's record of voting against his own party, he might find it difficult to get all his MP's to support him. One thing I do agree with is that at least now voters will have a clear choice between the two main parties. I suspect that in the short term Corbyn will fare quite well, but I cannot see him sustaining for the next four years. Interesting times ahead.

 

[leedswolf]

Show me a party where all the membership consistently agree with the leader.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Given Corbyn's record of voting against his own party, he might find it difficult to get all his MP's to support him. One thing I do agree with is that at least now voters will have a clear choice between the two main parties. I suspect that in the short term Corbyn will fare quite well, but I cannot see him sustaining for the next four years. Interesting times ahead.

Not sure they have much choice. If they try and oust him the membership will freak which could cost them millions. There may be some who wish to form their own party but our system doesn't allow for small parties and the SDP didn't fare so well. Even if they do wish to form their own party they will have to go back to their constituency and stand for election again to have any kind of democratic legitimacy.

Corbyn won't enjoy the support of the whole party (who does?) but full scale revolt may be unlikely. The problem for the Blairites is that their ideology (if you can call it that) has been utterly rejected by the party membership. Not as if they can appeal to public opinion or common sense - nobody is interested.

 

[FrankMunro-371]

Show me a party where all the membership consistently agree with the leader.

I can't. But my point was that Corbyn has a history of voting against his own party, so it would be unrealistic if he expected the support that he would not give other leaders.

 

[Tony Towner]

I find the way that Blairite is spat out as an insult these days a little bizaare. He won the Labour Party 3 GE's, so there was something the wider electorate liked about him and although I didn't vote for him in the last one because of Iraq, I feel that that this has defined him and whitewashed over the reason he got into power and retained it. Iraq was a disgrace, but there are still lessons to be learnt about what made the Labour Party electable

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I didn't have too many problems with his domestic politics, at least not in his first term. The point is though you can't just pretend it's 1997 again and peddle the same answers, the world has moved on.

 

[Tony Towner]

I would still argue that inclusive centricism is the only way Labour can win an election which is what Blair brought. I admire those that want a Labour Party that is true to itself, but I'd rather have Tory Lite than the full blown version

 

[Templeton Peck]

I would still argue that inclusive centricism is the only way Labour can win an election which is what Blair brought. I admire those that want a Labour Party that is true to itself, but I'd rather have Tory Lite than the full blown version

Labour weren't centrist under Blair though. Corbyn is far closer to the political centre than Blair.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I would still argue that inclusive centricism is the only way Labour can win an election which is what Blair brought. I admire those that want a Labour Party that is true to itself, but I'd rather have Tory Lite than the full blown version

Labour aren't any good at Tory lite though - I think people forget how Blair achieved this, the Paliamentary Labour Party was effectively a party within a party, the control of the party machine by spin doctors, strategists and policy advisors was to serve the PLP not the wider Labour Party. We, the activists, were nothing more than street fodder who delivered leaflets and knocked on doors but never asked our opinion. That was never sustainable and once the loyalty of party members was tested, like Iraq, there was less willingness to tolerate the centre right Tory-lite experiment.

Yes, I think Blair achieved some good things but none of it outweighs what he got wrong.

 

[Templeton Peck]

I find the way that Blairite is spat out as an insult these days a little bizaare. He won the Labour Party 3 GE's, so there was something the wider electorate liked about him and although I didn't vote for him in the last one because of Iraq, I feel that that this has defined him and whitewashed over the reason he got into power and retained it. Iraq was a disgrace, but there are still lessons to be learnt about what made the Labour Party electable

First term was alright as DW says. Some lefties were annoyed it wasn't the Bolshevik revolution but that was never on offer tbf to him. We had an issue with unemployment and shitty public services which he improved, by and large. He also moved us on culturally - binning off Clause 28 for instance. On the debit side - inequality worsened, he started the creeping privatization of the NHS, introduced academies and of course Iraq. Given the power and authority he had, I find it hard not to look back on his time as a huge missed opportunity. If he's upset at how lost his party appears at the moment then he only has himself to blame.

 

[Templeton Peck]

Labour aren't any good at Tory lite though - I think people forget how Blair achieved this, the Paliamentary Labour Party was effectively a party within a party, the control of the party machine by spin doctors, strategists and policy advisors was to serve the PLP not the wider Labour Party. We, the activists, were nothing more than street fodder who delivered leaflets and knocked on doors but never asked our opinion. That was never sustainable and once the loyalty of party members was tested, like Iraq, there was less willingness to tolerate the centre right Tory-lite experiment.

Yes, I think Blair achieved some good things but none of it outweighs what he got wrong.

Can't argue with a word of that. Blair treated the electorate of Scotland and the North in much the same way as he treated Labour's grassroots.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

As an outsider to the labour party (I don't need to elucidate why - we all know my preferences) I find labour supporters views on the Blair years fascinating. Did you feel betrayed after the first term? I am not trying to dig, just trying to get some understanding of the other side of the fence at that time.