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Israel-Palestine

"Move South of Gaza" feels like a euphemism for "go to Hell".
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
Look, i believe the palestinians have a huge amount of right on their side and israel has a lot to answer for but the palestinians aren't quite so squeaky clean.
The first terrorist incurscions killing israelis in israel began with the Fedayeen incurscions from Gaza in 1953, after the arab invasion of israel that started one day after israel was formed in 1948, and because the arabs lost, came to a peaceful settlement, at least for a while.
PLUS..... in 2006 gaza elected Hamas as their ruling government, and the first governmental dictate that Hamas made was to state that the state of israel had no right to exist and should be wiped off the face of the earth.
So a bit of glass houses and stones n'est ce pas?
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No problems with what you observe. But, why do you start in 1948? There was a helluva lot of trouble for several decades, for example during the so-called 'Mandate of the UK' after WW1 and the ending of the Ottoman Empire, and, indeed, during the centuries or millennia before that.
 
Wellen Wolf said:
No problems with what you observe. But, why do you start in 1948? There was a helluva lot of trouble for several decades, for example during the so-called 'Mandate of the UK' after WW1 and the ending of the Ottoman Empire, and, indeed, during the centuries or millennia before that.
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Simply because thats when the state of israel was actually official.
 
That CNN one, I can't decide if I'm 'fair play, you've owned it and apologised' or 'millions of people think babies were beheaded because you didn't do your job properly'. In a media that is so inherently pro-Israel and anti-Palestine you can kind of see why they'd instinctively take it as read, it's like they're brainwashed
 
Del Woppio said:
That CNN one, I can't decide if I'm 'fair play, you've owned it and apologised' or 'millions of people think babies were beheaded because you didn't do your job properly'. In a media that is so inherently pro-Israel and anti-Palestine you can kind of see why they'd instinctively take it as read, it's like they're brainwashed
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But as Stan and the guy above say, murdered babies are still murdered babies. We know that happened.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
Simply because thats when the state of israel was actually official.
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I think you'll find that before 1948 the Ottoman Empire and the British Mandate were also official. This is a row that has been going on for millennia and will sadly continue in the same way until humans move on from religion and gods, learn to forgive and live together in peace and, to be quite honest, become more civilized. To focus only on violence post the 1948 intervention is quite simply part of the problem and not the solution.
There are similar scenarios all over the world including within 'our own' islands.
 
Johnny75 said:
But as Stan and the guy above say, murdered babies are still murdered babies. We know that happened.
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Oh yeah absolutely, it's fucking disgusting. But they didn't need to lie about the circumstances in order the get the West any 'more' disgusted. Whether it's a bomb, a bullet or a blade, killing a baby is as horrible and heartbreaking as it gets
 
Wellen Wolf said:
I think you'll find that before 1948 the Ottoman Empire and the British Mandate were also official. This is a row that has been going on for millennia and will sadly continue in the same way until humans move on from religion and gods, learn to forgive and live together in peace and, to be quite honest, become more civilized. To focus only on violence post the 1948 intervention is quite simply part of the problem and not the solution.
There are similar scenarios all over the world including within 'our own' islands.
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Indeed. The idea of a 'Jewish State' or Der Judenstaat was proferred by Theodor Herzl in 1896 who sought to 'repatriate' persecuted European jews to Palestine.
 
Wellen Wolf said:
I think you'll find that before 1948 the Ottoman Empire and the British Mandate were also official. This is a row that has been going on for millennia and will sadly continue in the same way until humans move on from religion and gods, learn to forgive and live together in peace and, to be quite honest, become more civilized. To focus only on violence post the 1948 intervention is quite simply part of the problem and not the solution.
There are similar scenarios all over the world including within 'our own' islands.
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People don't need a religion or a God to find excuses to kill each other, and pinning this conflict specifically on religious differences feels somewhat reductive, particularly as framing it in this way paints both sides as mentally handicapped in some way.
 
That's been used as a justification on both sides but the existence of Israel is a geopolitical chit first and foremost, IMV.
 
They all have the same root. Plenty of land-based genocide (with plenty of cheering on and picking sides by God) in the Old Testament / Torah
 
Alan said:
People don't need a religion or a God to find excuses to kill each other, and pinning this conflict specifically on religious differences feels somewhat reductive, particularly as framing it in this way paints both sides as mentally handicapped in some way.
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You can argue and dispute a particular political ideology, movement or point with someone, and actually win the argument. You can't do that with religion because it's based on faith, and God is unassailable.
So therefore people who claim to know or reveal his truth are unassailable. It removes direct responsibility for horrific acts, as much as its also inspired great art and charity.

Mix that in with the bloody basis and history of the Abrahamic religions and it's been a recipe for disaster in many scenarios
 
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