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Israel-Palestine

Elephant Pyjamas said:
And therefore surely by your own rules, you're one sided!?
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You're confusing yourself here. Calm down a bit.

The discussion Alan and I were having was about where we apportion blame re: terrorists, it wasn't to do with the wider conflict.
 
Would you not call the children that the IDF have killed in Gaza this year, prior to October 7th, acts of terrorism?
 
Alan said:
If we can’t acknowledge the factors that create terrorism, we will never minimize it.
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There's a difference between acknowledging factors, and downplaying the agency and choices of the terrorists themselves to such a degree that they are either omitted from the narrative totally, or essentially portrayed as victims themselves.

I think we should be very careful to avoid doing the latter two
 
prawnking said:
You're confusing yourself here. Calm down a bit.

The discussion Alan and I were having was about where we apportion blame re: terrorists, it wasn't to do with the wider conflict.
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I'm not at all, you've tied yourself in your own knot.

You've stated that people need to declare condemnation of Hamas if they are critical of Israel, yet you are stating that you can be critical of Hamas without considering what Israel/the IDF have done.
 
We can’t begin to dream what “agency” feels like when living under an oppressive boot that murders your countrymen at will with zero consequences from the international community.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
I'm not at all, you've tied yourself in your own knot.

You've stated that people need to declare condemnation of Hamas if they are critical of Israel, yet you are stating that you can be critical of Hamas without considering what Israel/the IDF have done.
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No, you're wrong again.

I can condemn Hamas and Israel for actions I believe are atrocities/unjustified/war crimes/whatever. So (just a few examples), I would condemn Hamas for 7th October, I would condemn Israel for their blockade and for stopping humanitarian aid getting through until yesterday, and I'd condemn whoever ends up being reponsible for the horrific hospital explosion in Gaza.

None of that means I have to agree that Israel bear responsibility for the creation of Hamas, or that Hamas has any less agency or responsibility as a result.
 
Alan said:
We can’t begin to dream what “agency” feels like when living under an oppressive boot that murders your countrymen at will with zero consequences from the international community.
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You're getting dangerously close to conflating Hamas and the Palestinian people here, and painting Hamas as oppressed freedom fighters.

Do you think the same of the Taliban?
 
You might want to consider changing your signature...
 
Totally irrelevant to all this egotistical infighting about who knows more the who, when we all know fuck all really, but...
I spoke to an ex of mine last night, who for clarities sake, is of indian decent, raised in germany and happens to be a "live" reporter for Al Jazeera.
She says they have analysed the footage they recorded of the rocket that hit the car park of the hospital, and their experts are clear that it was a rocket, one among a bunch, fired by al jihad, or whatever they are called, that appeared to malfunction in mid flight, made an abrupt turn and crashed into the hospital car park.
She says the crews on the ground, say it was cleary not munitions from an israeli
Plane or artillery piece, as they have seen thousands of these, and crew who managed to get to the site say the crater was minimal and equally nowhere near the hole israeli munitions leave behind.
She has no reason to bullshit, especially not to me, and actually when not being unbiased for her job is pro palestinian.
So, i'll take that over TWF unconfirmed opinions from some, all day, everyday
 
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