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Israel-Palestine

Painting this as a new conflict is the least nuanced take possible. Painting the people who are observing Israel's role in the conflict as "child murder apologists" is also not particularly nuanced.
 
prawnking said:
EP: If someone was saying this about an individual child murderer, what would they be?

Yep, an apologist for murder
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You have the audacity to talk about nuance and yet you refuse to identify how and why things like this can happen.

Often paedophiles and murderers are products of sexual and physical abuse as children and that can lead them to commit awful crimes themselves, identifying the reasons why awful things happen is not apologising for it.

It doesn't mean people are any less disgusted by the actions of those people any less than they are when discussing the reasons why Hamas have done what they've done.
 
Alan, observing the conflict while stroking your beard on your sofas doesn't make anyone a geopolitical expert.

The sidelining and blanket ignoring of the initial massive loss of Israeli life that precipitated this very specific conflict and phase in the history of this area of the world has been the defining feature of the discussion. The bodies were barely cold before it was Israel this and Israel that (Tbf you personally did at condemn Hamas in some form)
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
You have the audacity to talk about nuance and yet you refuse to identify how and why things like this can happen.

Often paedophiles and murderers are products of sexual and physical abuse as children and that can lead them to commit awful crimes themselves, identifying the reasons why awful things happen is not apologising for it.

It doesn't mean people are any less disgusted by the actions of those people any less than they are when discussing the reasons why Hamas have done what they've done.
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Come off it.

The 'identifying the reasons behind it' phase is a pretty grandiose way of describing 'It's Israel's fault', which was the instant conclusion of several people on their initial posts on the thread
 
prawnking said:
This is a specific conflict, just like the Gaza War in the late 2000's

I thought you were always bemoaning the lack on nuance on here?
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Separate but linked. You seem to be trying to paint many on here as Hamas sympathisers. I doubt there’s a single poster that wouldn’t be happy to see them wiped out but many have concerns about the collateral damage to civilians to achieve that and recognise that it will simply create many more people that will see a new Hamas as their only option to improve their lives.
 
prawnking said:
Alan, observing the conflict while stroking your beard on your sofas doesn't make anyone a geopolitical expert.

The sidelining and blanket ignoring of the initial massive loss of Israeli life that precipitated this very specific conflict and phase in the history of this area of the world has been the defining feature of the discussion. The bodies were barely cold before it was Israel this and Israel that (Tbf you personally did at condemn Hamas in some form)
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I do respect the extent to which you have your convictions and fight tooth and nail for them.

We’re obviously quite far apart on this issue but hope no harm is done.
 
Wilf Wolf said:
Separate but linked. You seem to be trying to paint many on here as Hamas sympathisers. I doubt there’s a single poster that wouldn’t be happy to see them wiped out but many have concerns about the collateral damage to civilians to achieve that and recognise that it will simply create many more people that will see a new Hamas as their only option to improve their lives.
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Post of the thread imo.
 
Wilf Wolf said:
Separate but linked. You seem to be trying to paint many on here as Hamas sympathisers. I doubt there’s a single poster that wouldn’t be happy to see them wiped out but many have concerns about the collateral damage to civilians to achieve that and recognise that it will simply create many more people that will see a new Hamas as their only option to improve their lives.
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I have those concerns too, as I've said. It's a forum, it's what you say that's important... We can't read each others thoughts.

When all the emphasis is on Israel, and most of the mention of Hamas comes in the form of justification and explanation, it's fair game to be remarked upon.

Do you know how much of the Jewish community view the 7th Oct? How do you think someone of Jewish heritage or with family in Israel would feel about the comments of some people on here, miles away from harm, sitting in comfort and rationising infanticide?
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
There's no point talking to you PK, you claim people have made their mind up, but there is no one with a more closed mind than you on this thread.
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It's interesting saying others have closed minds; forgive me, but I can tell what you and TP are going to say on this subject because you're like 80s socialist bots, predictable and clichéd. You would be saying the same stuff about every conflict between Israel and Hamas or whoever if this thread was 15, 20 or 30 years old.

What you don't acknowledge is that it comes across as only showing humanity and empathy for one side, that's where I have to disagree with you.

I do agree with much criticism of Israel and the West, but it's part of the background, the focus is what both parties are doing now, and neither is coming out of it well
 
More than 170 Palestinians, including at least 30 children, were killed across the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem last year. In January 2023 alone, at least 29 Palestinians including five children have been killed.

The UN said that 2022 was the deadliest year for Palestinians since 2006, but 2023 is already on course to surpass that, if the number of deaths stay at the same level, and there is now the potential for a full-scale uprising among Palestinians, particularly in the wake of Israel’s new far-right government, which came into power at the end of December.
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The fact that these deaths never created a thread, yet the deaths on Oct 7th did, is illustrative of why many of us are not willing to separate this moment in the conflict from the greater struggle of the last 8 decades.
 
Elephant Pyjamas said:
There's no point talking to you PK, you claim people have made their mind up, but there is no one with a more closed mind than you on this thread.
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I can think of one.

A Corbyn cock snogger who has failed to condemn the Baby murders once.
 
To summarise

Hamas are cunts
The Israeli government are cunts
The US government (indeed a succession of them) are cunts for pandering to the Israeli government and letting them get away with shit because they are terrified that the US Jewish vote is the keys to the White House
The rest of the West are cunts for backing the US position to stay buddies when blatant oppression has gone on for decades

The only non cunts are the innocent parts of the Palestinian and Israeli civilian population who seem to do most of the dying.

Good luck sorting out the middle east though. Might as well try something simple like unpicking the Gordian knot.
 
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