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Israel-Palestine

Templeton Peck said:
Well obviously Israel bears ultimate responsibility as the occupier. Israel retreats to its 1968 borders and last weekend doesn't happen. The West are in a position to ensure a 2 state solution but refuse to do so. Hamas are a product of decades of poverty, violence and humiliation.
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Absolute bollocks. Unsurprising coming from someone who hasn't denounced the Hamas atrocities once on this whole thread.

Israel's leaders are cunts, and the West has its moments too, but you should be ashamed of this cliched, apologist drivel; it's offensive.

Hamas are no more worthy of empathy than Al-Qaeda or Isis, they're responsible for much of the violence and humilation on their own people that takes place in Gaza.

What happened on the 7th Oct was their planning, their choice, their execution and their responsibility (just as Netanyahu and co bear responsibility for their deeds after that date)

Stop infantilising and justifying foreign terrorists and murderers to fit into your rigid political worldview
 
Templeton Peck said:
It's also the UN position not just the SU. The only practical solution is a 2 state one which the US could enforce tomorrow if it wished.
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Well, not quite. If we did this we’d lose Israel as an ally and that would make all of the money we’ve thrown at them over the decades utterly moot. Not to mention all the military equipment we’d then have to “reclaim” (and I doubt Israel would just hand that shit over).

They’re too valuable to the US as a power base in the region. In that way, we’re as beholden to them as they are to us.
 
Alan said:
Well, not quite. If we did this we’d lose Israel as an ally and that would make all of the money we’ve thrown at them over the decades utterly moot.

They’re too valuable to the US as a power base in the region. In that way, we’re as beholden to them as they are to us.
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I'd argue Israel depends on the US more. It's usually the only state that votes against UN resolutions on Israel and has a permanent seat on the Security Council. They're the reason Israel is the only nuclear power in the region.
 
Templeton Peck said:
I'd argue Israel depends on the US more. It's usually the only state that votes against UN resolutions on Israel and has a permanent seat on the Security Council. They're the reason Israel is the only nuclear power in the region.
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Indeed, the problem is that they’re now a nuclear power. 😆

The Red Button doesn’t care who paid for it, just who pushes it.
 
Alan said:
Understanding the causes of terrorism is not equitable to justifying terrorism, mate.
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If blaming the victim for being attacked (and the Israeli people were the victims on the 7th Oct) and literally listing excuses for the perpetrators isn't justifying then tell me what is?
 
prawnking said:
Absolute bollocks. Unsurprising coming from someone who hasn't denounced the Hamas atrocities once on this whole thread.

Israel's leaders are cunts, and the West has its moments too, but you should be ashamed of this cliched, apologist drivel; it's offensive.

Hamas are no more worthy of empathy than Al-Qaeda or Isis, they're responsible for much of the violence and humilation on their own people that takes place in Gaza.

What happened on the 7th Oct was their planning, their choice, their execution and their responsibility (just as Netanyahu and co bear responsibility for their deeds after that date)

Stop infantilising and justifying foreign terrorists and murderers to fit into your rigid political worldview
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Did Hamas just appear by magic on Oct 7th then?
 
prawnking said:
If blaming the victim for being attacked (and the Israeli people were the victims on the 7th Oct) and literally listing excuses for the perpetrators isn't justifying then tell me what is?
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Israel the state bears some responsibility, not the victims of the attack.

This conflict did not start on October 7th.
 
Alan said:
Israel the state bears some responsibility, not the victims of the attack.

This conflict did not start on October 7th.
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Yes it did. This conflict is the Israel-Hamas war and it began on Oct 7th.

Of course there is a long history of conflicts, but Hamas had been quiet for months (most of the last year) before this surprise attack.

The whole region is a colossal, twisted headfuck like Ireland, but you can't dismiss and justify every new atrocity the same way.

TP sounds like Bin Laden justifying 9/11. 'If you hadn't done that, we wouldn't have done this'
 
prawnking said:
Yes it did. This conflict is the Israel-Hamas war and it began on Oct 7th.
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If this is the basis of your position, we're not going to have very productive discussions on the topic. Starting from too far apart.
 
Alan said:
If this is the basis of your position, we're not going to have very productive discussions on the topic. Starting from too far apart.
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If there's precious little nuance on the thread and I'm talking with a cabal of apologists for murder, then yep
 
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