• Welcome, guest!

    This is a forum devoted to discussion of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    Why not sign up and contribute? Registered members get a fully ad-free experience!

Hillsborough

Sniffer Grouse said:
All parties were scared of the compensation claims hence the reason why it has taken 23 years for the FA to apologise for hosting a showpiece event at a stadium without a safety certificate.
Click to expand...

And that makes it right on what level? There should have been a moral responsibility from the FA. As I said scum saving their own backsides.
 
Johnny75 said:
And that makes it right on what level? There should have been a moral responsibility from the FA. As I said scum saving their own backsides.
Click to expand...


I'm in agreement with you - its a disgrace.

Sheffield City Council, Sheffield Wednesday FC, South Yorkshire Police, South Yorkshire Ambulance Service, the F.A were all to blame for the lives lost and the Coroner, the Sun and Sir Tory Bigprick should be holding their heads in shame for the events that followed. Even a clip of the BBC news that night had Moira Stewart reading out that supporters had charged a gate and caused a crush.

Before and after Hillsborough, all football fans were treated as scum by sections of the media and the state regardless of whether you were a law abiding citizen or not. I can recall being locked up in a pen at Nottingham train station for an hour and a half without access to a toilet or refreshments just because I was stupid enough to admit to arriving in the city to watch a football match. Thankfully times have changed now but it took the deaths of well over a hundred people at Bradford and Hillsborough before attitudes began to turn.
 
I was disappointed this morning when Jack Straw tried to make political gain out of disaster. Some things come above party politics, and the Hillsborough disaster is one such thing.

For those who did not hear Mr Straw on the Today programme, he laid a portion of the blame at the door of the Conservative Government, implying that they turned a blind eye to the police issue, as they wanted the Police on their side if their was further industrial action by mineworkers, or other sectors.
 
To be fair if the Government at the time played their part in the cover up then they should be attacked.
 
Kenny said:
To be fair if the Government at the time played their part in the cover up then they should be attacked.
Click to expand...

I totally agree, but I am not aware that the Government of the day have been accused of covering things up.

As I said earlier in this thread, everyone involved must shoulder a part of the blame. It is worth remembering that there were two separate incidents. The first was prior to kick off when an awful lot of Liverpool fans arrived at the ground only minutes before 3pm. The second concerns what happened in the ground. I am of the opinion that the second might not have occurred if the first had not happened.
 
Straw had ample opportunity when in Government to bring this matter to an earlier conclusion.
The Thatcher government had used the police force, and media to break the working class during this period, maybe the Police expected their backs to be covered in reciprocation.
Didn't happen though due to Blair being in the Murdoch pocket, thank Andy Burnham for his efforts during recent years.
 
FrankMunro-371 said:
I was disappointed this morning when Jack Straw tried to make political gain out of disaster. Some things come above party politics, and the Hillsborough disaster is one such thing.

For those who did not hear Mr Straw on the Today programme, he laid a portion of the blame at the door of the Conservative Government, implying that they turned a blind eye to the police issue, as they wanted the Police on their side if their was further industrial action by mineworkers, or other sectors.
Click to expand...

He's right though, isn't he? At the very least, there must surely be some suspicion of the Thatcher government's role in all this.

In the panel's report, they released an internal cabinet memo on which Thatcher had handwritten the following against a bit in which it was stated that Douglas Hurd welcomed the thrust of the Taylor Report:

What do we mean by 'welcoming the broad thrust of the report'? The broad thrust is devastating criticism of the police. Is that for us to welcome? Surely we welcome the thoroughness of the report and its recommendations - M.T."
Click to expand...

On the face of it, she seems more concerned to protect the police's reputation than to get justice for the victims.
 
FrankMunro-371 said:
It is worth remembering that there were two separate incidents. The first was prior to kick off when an awful lot of Liverpool fans arrived at the ground only minutes before 3pm. The second concerns what happened in the ground. I am of the opinion that the second might not have occurred if the first had not happened.
Click to expand...

I don't recall any of the report stating that an awful lot of fans arrived at the ground only minutes before kick off. There was already congestion at the ground due to it taking 4 times longer to admit supporters to this part of the ground compared to the end in which the Nottingham Forest supporters were. The Leppings Lane end didn't have a vaild safety certificate. The FA didn't check on this and didn't take into account the problems there in 1981, 1987 and 1988. The game was not delayed despite the congestion outside, the tunnel was not blocked off (like it had been the previous year) to ensure that the overcrowding in the middle pens didn't get any worse. The second incident would not have happened if the FA, the Police, Sheffield Cuty Council and Sheffield Wednesday FC had acted correctly. Liverpool supporters arriving at the ground was not part of the problem.
 
Last edited:
Lupine Howl said:
He's right though, isn't he? At the very least, there must surely be some suspicion of the Thatcher government's role in all this.

In the panel's report, they released an internal cabinet memo on which Thatcher had handwritten the following against a bit in which it was stated that Douglas Hurd welcomed the thrust of the Taylor Report:

On the face of it, she seems more concerned to protect the police's reputation than to get justice for the victims.
Click to expand...

Scoring political points at a time like this helps nobody not least the last government who could have released the report earlier as LK said. If he was so concerned about it at the time why didn't he say anythign it's not like the families have only been doing this for the time the coalition has been in power. Put your party politics aside for once eh.
 
Plus the delays to Liverpool fans were caused by a motorway accident and vehicle breakdown on their main route.
 
I may withdraw from this debate as my views on the events prior to kick off differ from the general consensus. Some great points being made though Gents.
 
FrankMunro-371 said:
I may withdraw from this debate as my views on the events prior to kick off differ from the general consensus. Some great points being made though Gents.
Click to expand...

The "general consensus" is based on facts delivered by an independent body.

As for a Thatcher cover up, I have no evidence to support this. What I am sure about is that after the Miner's Strike of 4 years earlier the last police force she would want to see criticised was South Yorkshire...she owed them.
 
Last edited:
Tony Towner said:
The "general consensus" is based on facts delivered by an independent body.

As for a Thatcher cover up, I have no evidence to support this, however what I am sure about is that after the Miner's Strike of 4 years earlier the last police force she would want to see criticised was South Yorkshire...she owed them.
Click to expand...

Yet after the Taylor report the Chief Constable of Sheffield was forced to resign, although from what i gather the Bishop and his team have had far more information available to them than Taylor did. I'm not sure the doctored police statements were made available back then, if they had been perhaps more heads would have been on the block.

Frank the report is fairly clear that the poor turnstiles were the major cause of delay outside the ground at the Leppings Lane end, and while Liverpool fans may have arrived late due to the mtoorway accident etc, there was no problem outside with hooligan elements.

The FA have a lot to answer for allowing a stadium to be used without adequate safety certificates, and in my opinion, the police knowing there were so many people still outside, should have insisted the start of the game was delayed.

I've been outside the old Noth Bank at Wolves waiting to get in after a game has started, it was quite relaxed until the first serious roar from the crowd inside, and then the agitation started outside.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
Yet after the Taylor report the Chief Constable of Sheffield was forced to resigned.
Click to expand...

No, Wright "retired" on full pension as did Duckenfield despite only being in his 40's at the time.
 
Last edited:
Johnny75 said:
Scoring political points at a time like this helps nobody not least the last government who could have released the report earlier as LK said. If he was so concerned about it at the time why didn't he say anythign it's not like the families have only been doing this for the time the coalition has been in power. Put your party politics aside for once eh.
Click to expand...

If a Labour PM had written that memo, I would be just as keen to know why he / she was seemingly more concerned with protecting the reputation of the police than delivering justice.

FWIW, I agree that Straw (along with a generation of other politicians - including the Blair government) hasn't covered himself in glory on this matter. But surely we shouldn't attempt to shut down what is a legitimate line of questioning just because it is Straw that is pursuing it? That really would be a case of playing party politics.
 
Really good piece and shows a united front for justice in the wake of some of the worst characters to be in charge of it.
 
I am frankly amazed at the statement of Norman Bettison this afternoon. Flying in the face of the facts he is still saying the fans made the police job harder on the day and that he was "unaware" of any alteration of statements. I'm gobsmacked.
 
I think psychologists are right - people have their own views on a subject and will only see facts that support that view and ignore any evidence to the contrary. For further evidence see the TUC thread.
 
I am pleased that at last the truth has come out, now I wait for policemen to be charged, but I will not hold my breath...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top