General Wolves News

[Kenny]

Its only theft if you agree that the Wolves badge/head can belong to a corporation.

Well it does. It was created for Wolves to use as their identity.

Lets try it this way.

The official licensed products work like this

A company wants to make football items that are approved by the club. they then pay a lot per item to get that approval. They then pay to manufacture and distribute that item then someone copies said item (the club actually have to pay for them like any other stock, if they don't make it themselves, so they also have to look out for the profit margin), without the outlay of thousands of pounds and takes money from that company. So there has to be control on that.

Going off the examples I know - About 5 years ago, to get permission to put a West Ham Badge on 1 product cost around £50k if they liked the product. Now image you run a business selling items where you have paid that amount x10. Would you be happy you were losing sales to someone who ignored the legal route?

 

[Johnny75]

Its only theft if you agree that the Wolves badge/head can belong to a corporation.

The wolf head logo belongs to Wolves. No arguing that, it is a fact.

Therefore using it without permission for commercial gain is theft.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Asked him a question no dig just need to know whether to ignore him or not.

Not that he needs me to fight his battles for him but you don't need to question his credentials.

Don't try warring with people on here, it won't end well. You speak well on football, carry on with that and less of the rubbish. Friendly advice.

 

[pacamac]

Well it does. It was created for Wolves to use as their identity.

Lets try it this way.

The official licensed products work like this

A company wants to make football items that are approved by the club. they then pay a lot per item to get that approval. They then pay to manufacture and distribute that item then someone copies said item, without the outlay of thousands of pounds and takes money from that company. So there has to be control on that.

Going off the examples I know - About 5 years ago, to get permission to put a West Ham Badge on 1 proudct cost around £50k if they liked the product. Now image you run a business selling items where you have paid that amount x10. Would you be happy you were losing sales to someone who ignored the legal route?

It does legally, that post was talking morally.

My response was you can defend legal theft morally.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Its only theft if you agree that the Wolves badge/head can belong to a corporation.

Which of course it can and does.

 

[Johnny75]

It does legally, that post was talking morally.

My response was you can defend legal theft morally.

You can't.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

It does legally, that post was talking morally.

My response was you can defend legal theft morally.

There is no such thing as legal theft.

 

[jdrodrigues]

Cool story, its not really that serious is it....nobodies died! Thanks for your life story though I genuinely didn't care.

Then Wolves better watch out because they've ripped off loads of football/casual trends over the years very hypercritical.

You one of those Mexicans who decided to support us a couple of years ago?

Cool, bro. I'm Portuguese though. So you missed that. My story with Wolves is very well known around the forumers. Feel free to research it if you want.

The thing you don't seem to grasp is that Intellectual Property rights are exclusive. The club has a few of them registered (want me to find the registrations?) and, as such, benefit from the exclusivity. The concept of exclusivity includes the right to defend themselves from infringement. Be it from a grandmother knitting beanies at home and selling them to supplement a pension, a one-guy company selling pins near the stadium or a major business profiting (largely) from counterfeiting goods. So long as they are making money off rights, the owners of trademarks have cause to pursue. What is both illegal and immoral is people making money off other people's jobs and work.

Probably, "Football/Casual trends" are not protected whatsoever. So Wolves have nothing to "better watch out". Please clarify what you mean by the expression "football/casual trend", and we may discuss this further.

Just because "nobody died" does not mean the club should not protect itself against these type of actions. It's their right to pursue the people and, let me tell you, they're being awfully nice by starting with cease n' desist letters. While a common practice, they could skip this step and directly sue everyone. Like I said, there are legal provisions which state that actions of infringement, if let to play out over a long period (normally between 5 to 10 years) can then constitute exceptions to the exclusive right. In turn, this dilutes the protection granted by the trademark registrations and decreases the value of said registrations. Ultimately, if the exclusive right is never enforced, it may be cancelled due to becoming generic. While unusual, it is a real danger.

Know what happens when a trademark is cancelled due to being generic? Anyone can use it. Me, you, the club, any other club, company or entity that operates in the market. It is serious. Very serious.

We can continue this, if you want.

Having a needless dig at a mate of mine.

Just behave, there are people behind usernames.

Don't worry, it doesn't affect me. I have nothing to prove to anyone regarding my support of Wolves.

Its only theft if you agree that the Wolves badge/head can belong to a corporation.

A company is a legal person therefore it can own property. Be it physical property (like real estate) or intellectual property (like trademarks and patents).

The club have a few of them, actually.

 

[pacamac]

Not that he needs me to fight his battles for him but you don't need to question his credentials.

Don't try warring with people on here, it won't end well. You speak well on football, carry on with that and less of the rubbish. Friendly advice.

So in other words speak well on football but don't disagree with us.....hmmm I'll carry on as I am thanks not sure what kind of threat it 'not ending well' relates to but don't worry I'm a big boy.

 

[pacamac]

There is no such thing as legal theft.

Should have read illegal

 

[Kenny]

It does legally, that post was talking morally.

My response was you can defend legal theft morally.

Well the legal part is all that counts really.

if your moral stance is stop buying official items because someone people broke the law, then that is your call and no one is going question that. No different to when I refused to by a shirt with Moneyshop on the front as that was my moral stance. I would say though that if you think the only person being harmed by this action is the seller of the fakes, then you are wrong. The license holder and the staff at their company (and trust me a lot of companies that have paid for the rights are not huge places, a lot little family run businesses), the manufacturer and their staff all suffer if sales and orders are simply not there.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

So in other words speak well on football but don't disagree with us.....hmmm I'll carry on as I am thanks not sure what kind of threat it 'not ending well' relates to but don't worry I'm a big boy.

I don't make threats.

I don't care who disagrees with me or anyone else but I do take offence to someone behaving like a prat.

Carry on if you like but let's see what happens.

 

[pacamac]

Cool, bro. I'm Portuguese though. So you missed that. My story with Wolves is very well known around the forumers. Feel free to research it if you want.

The thing you don't seem to grasp is that Intellectual Property rights are exclusive. The club has a few of them registered (want me to find the registrations?) and, as such, benefit from the exclusivity. The concept of exclusivity includes the right to defend themselves from infringement. Be it from a grandmother knitting beanies at home and selling them to supplement a pension, a one-guy company selling pins near the stadium or a major business profiting (largely) from counterfeiting goods. So long as they are making money off rights, the owners of trademarks have cause to pursue. What is both illegal and immoral is people making money off other people's jobs and work.

Probably, "Football/Casual trends" are not protected whatsoever. So Wolves have nothing to "better watch out". Please clarify what you mean by the expression "football/casual trend", and we may discuss this further.

Just because "nobody died" does not mean the club should not protect itself against these type of actions. It's their right to pursue the people and, let me tell you, they're being awfully nice by starting with cease n' desist letters. While a common practice, they could skip this step and directly sue everyone. Like I said, there are legal provisions which state that actions of infringement, if let to play out over a long period (normally between 5 to 10 years) can then constitute exceptions to the exclusive right. In turn, this dilutes the protection granted by the trademark registrations and decreases the value of said registrations. Ultimately, if the exclusive right is never enforced, it may be cancelled due to becoming generic. While unusual, it is a real danger.

Know what happens when a trademark is cancelled due to being generic? Anyone can use it. Me, you, the club, any other club, company or entity that operates in the market. It is serious. Very serious.

We can continue this, if you want.




Don't worry, it doesn't affect me. I have nothing to prove to anyone regarding my support of Wolves.

Apologies so why the Mexican flag etc, you can see where the confusion came from. Ah Portuguese so you jumped on the band wagon a year or two earlier than the Mexicans then yeah? Haha I jest...don't get your knickers in a twist I wasn't questioning you support for Wolves more for my own knowledge as to who to bother communicating with and who not on here.

I think what you are failing to understand is I'm not arguing against your spot on explanation of the law I'm arguing that Wolves hypercritical interpretation and policing of it is way OTT in this case.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Anyway, the club have always been VERY protective of the logo.

15 years ago I was having a custom guitar made by one of the big Japanese manufacturers and I wanted to see what the potential costing for using the logo as fret markers was. Got a long response from Jez Moxey explaining I could have permission to use the logo as it wasn’t for commercial use as this would be my own private guitar and wasn’t going to be a line sold anywhere else. The club and the guitar manufacturers got together by email and eventually ESP japan backed out as the licencing cost they would need to pay Wolves and then only be able to charge me cost price as they were not allowed to commercially benefit just made it economically unviable.

Still got a great guitar, but sadly no logos.

 

[pacamac]

Well the legal part is all that counts really.

if your moral stance is stop buying official items because someone people broke the law, then that is your call and no one is going question that. No different to when I refused to by a shirt with Moneyshop on the front as that was my moral stance. I would say though that if you think the only person being harmed by this action is the seller of the fakes, then you are wrong. The license holder and the staff at their company (and trust me a lot of companies that have paid for the rights are not huge places, a lot little family run businesses), the manufacturer and their staff all suffer if sales and orders are simply not there.

Its all that counts with regard to the law but I thought this was a forum where we could debate our moral beliefs as much as the black and white law no? Or is it but only when you agree?

 

[jdrodrigues]

Felt like doing a little digging while preparing for an interview.

Have at it.

List of trademarks registered by "Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club (1986) Limited"

 

[pacamac]

I don't make threats.


Carry on if you like but let's see what happens.

Sounds like one.

 

[pacamac]

Felt like doing a little digging while preparing for an interview.

Have at it.

List of trademarks registered by "Wolverhampton Wanderers Football Club (1986) Limited

That it? Sound always preferred the late 80's early 90's badge me (google it) that's not on there. Might start knocking up some tee shirts with that on.

 

[jdrodrigues]

Apologies so why the Mexican flag etc, you can see where the confusion came from. Ah Portuguese so you jumped on the band wagon a year or two earlier than the Mexicans then yeah? Haha I jest...don't get your knickers in a twist I wasn't questioning you support for Wolves more for my own knowledge as to who to bother communicating with and who not on here.

I think what you are failing to understand is I'm not arguing against your spot on explanation of the law I'm arguing that Wolves hypercritical interpretation and policing of it is way OTT in this case.

Mexican flag? I think you're mistaking it with the Benfica logo, maybe? For reference.

It really isn't over the top, though. All these tiny infringements are like little cracks on a castle wall. If left unattended, the whole building can collapse under sufficient pressure.

That it? Sound always preferred the late 80's early 90's badge me (google it) that's not on there. Might start knocking up some tee shirts with that on.

They probably have other registrations under different names. These search engines are relatively simple and sometimes don't show stuff unless it is written exactly they appear on registry. Can always research without the "(1986)" or "Limited" mentions.

Btw, did you check all the pages? By default, it only shows the first 10 out of 32.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Sounds like one.

Ok, consider this a warning. Not a threat, a warning.

I don't take kindly to people I've taken in good faith behaving like you have today. Because there are ways and means of talking to people. You're talking to people I care about and I know well.

Show a bit of respect and don't act the prick. You'll get the same back.

As I say, do what you like. I think you're a reasonable guy who's decided to act in a certain way and got it wrong. You have the chance to turn that around. Or not.

Don't make problems that don't exist.