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Cyber-_-man said:
I concede ikeme is OK as a back up but why bother tying a back up down? Fosun want to show intent but some of the contract decisions do leave me scratching my head a bit. None of the current back five are good enough for a top 6 challenge
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In answer to your question, because at the moment he isn't a backup, he's first choice. Assuming Lambert wants a replacement it's an insurance policy until we get one. I doubt his new contract is on more than he was on previously and this enables us to get £300k or so if we move him on, which we wouldn't get if he were out of contract.
I know the point you are making about the back 5 but Batth, Iorfa, Ikeme and Stearman were all first choice in a team that finished 7th with record points. Now two of those are woefully out of form, but to suggest that none of them are good enough to play in a team to challenge the top 6 is proven to be incorrect.
 
This is subjective, but here's the 23 other keepers that played in their last game and how Ikeme compares versus them. This isn't trying to claim he's anything other than what I believe he is an average Championship keeper, but reading some of the comments on here you'd think he was worse than he is:
Ikeme better
Bunn (Villa)
Price (Doncaster)
McLaughlin (Burton)
Kusczcak (Blues)
Jasskelainen (Wigan) - better than Ikeme in prime
Maxwell (Preston)
Button (Fulham)
Stojkovic (Forest)
Murphy (Cardiff) also better than Amos who has just been dropped

Ikeme worse
Carson (Derby)
Stockdale (Brighton)
Smithies (QPR)
Westwood (Sheff Wed)
Davies (Barnsley)

On a par
Green (Leeds) - better than Ikeme in prime
Al-Habsi (Reading)
Fielding (Bristol City)
Darlow (Newcastle)
Ruddy (Norwich) - better than Ikeme in prime
Bialkowski (Ipswich)
Coleman (Huddersfield) - put him here as I don't know him. Regular keeper Ward would be in the better than Ikeme list
Steele (Blackburn)
Bentley (Brentford)

Including Huddersfield 6 teams have a better keeper, 9 worse and 8 broadly on a par.
 
Tony Towner said:
In answer to your question, because at the moment he isn't a backup, he's first choice. Assuming Lambert wants a replacement it's an insurance policy until we get one. I doubt his new contract is on more than he was on previously and this enables us to get £300k or so if we move him on, which we wouldn't get if he were out of contract.
I know the point you are making about the back 5 but Batth, Iorfa, Ikeme and Stearman were all first choice in a team that finished 7th with record points. Now two of those are woefully out of form, but to suggest that none of them are good enough to play in a team to challenge the top 6 is proven to be incorrect.
Click to expand...

We should be asking Thelwell and Lambert why those 2 are woefully out of form and how to correct it.
 
I guess it all comes down to opinion but I really didn't rate Oakes at all, everyone just seems to remember the Man U game and think that was a standard performance for him. He was very poor IMO and should have never replaced Stowell.

Seeing as we are on keepers did anyone see the howler from Bunn last night? If that was Ikeme this place would be in full melt down.

Was very impressed with Leeds looked a very good side some real quality there.
 
Of your broadly on a par list I would swap ikeme for Green, Al habsi ,Ruddy or Bentley in a heartbeat and feel we had upgraded. All are more vocal or more commanding on the area than Ikeme.
 
Cyber-_-man said:
Of your broadly on a par list I would swap ikeme for Green, Al habsi ,Ruddy or Bentley in a heartbeat and feel we had upgraded. All are more vocal or more commanding on the area than Ikeme.
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Green, Ruddy, Al Habsi really, this seasons versions? Have you seen them?
 
Tony Towner said:
In answer to your question, because at the moment he isn't a backup, he's first choice. Assuming Lambert wants a replacement it's an insurance policy until we get one. I doubt his new contract is on more than he was on previously and this enables us to get £300k or so if we move him on, which we wouldn't get if he were out of contract.
I know the point you are making about the back 5 but Batth, Iorfa, Ikeme and Stearman were all first choice in a team that finished 7th with record points. Now two of those are woefully out of form, but to suggest that none of them are good enough to play in a team to challenge the top 6 is proven to be incorrect.
Click to expand...

That was then. The players have gone backwards. Stearman has lost his recovery pace, his biggest asset.Iorfa has not kicked on and his confidence is shot. Batth is broadly the same but still has easily identified inadequacies that are less easy to cover not Stearman has lost that pace, and we still bemoaned the lack of leadership and box command when we finished 7 th. Actually I feel you are proving my point rather than debunking it.
 
Tony Towner said:
Green, Ruddy, Al Habsi really, this seasons versions? Have you seen them?
Click to expand...

In fairness only on the telly! Al Habsi always seemed to do well Green has settled the Leeds defence, Ruddy has only just got back in. I would prefer better but as I said think that all 4 mentioned would be an upgrade on concrete boots. Its subjective, its only opinion. The biggest fault i see is lack of organisation and command between gk and 2 cb. Getting a player in that solves that is for me an upgrade.
 
I don't know where the myth about Stearman losing pace has come from. He's 29, had no major injuries in the last 2 years and wasn't particularly quick in the first place. He looked slow against Sheff Wed chasing Forestieri, but no different to how he did in similar situations in his first spell. Again I'm no real fan, but he's no worse than he was when we finished 7th. Whether I have debunked your point is up to you to judge, what I have proven is you can finish towards the top of the league with the players we have in the back 5. Even though you could upgrade all of them pretty easily in the Summer with a reasonable budget.
 
We are only going to be bringing in 2-3 players in January and keeper is way down the list. Going forward if Ikeme shows PL he's not up to it, in the summer we can get a keeper and Ikeme becomes a good no. 2.......its really not that much of an issue imo
 
Tony Towner said:
I don't know where the myth about Stearman losing pace has come from. He's 29, had no major injuries in the last 2 years and wasn't particularly quick in the first place. He looked slow against Sheff Wed chasing Forestieri, but no different to how he did in similar situations in his first spell. Again I'm no real fan, but he's no worse than he was when we finished 7th. Whether I have debunked your point is up to you to judge, what I have proven is you can finish towards the top of the league with the players we have in the back 5. Even though you could upgrade all of them pretty easily in the Summer with a reasonable budget.
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That's fair enough. I would argue it was the form of Afobe Sako and Dicko that got us to 7th. We kept 2 clean sheets in our last 12 games on the run in that year.
 
Yep its been pretty grim at the back for some time, even in div 1 we looked a bit shakey but we controlled midfield better then and mostly had a superior overall squad. I can't remember the last time we had a defence with a reliable CB/leader/organizer........Craddock?
 
Tony Towner said:
Darlow isn't though makes too many errors and will be the first player they upgrade when they get promoted
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They bought Darlow (along with Lascelles) when they were in the Premier League and loaned him back to Forest for a season. I doubt they did that knowing they were getting relegated. They bought him for the Prem.
 
And then when he got picked in the PL last season he was a disaster zone and dropped for Elliot a career reserve
 
All Habsi always struck me as a quality all round keeper capable of the odd Rick but worth 15 points a season. Darlow has won over toon fans. Ruddy has international pedigree. Green is remembered for his England fuck up otherwise he would probably have a premier club.ikeme was on loan at Middlesbrough who didn't buy him buying Konstantopolis from league 2 Hartlepool. He gained his international call during our league one season when he and the defence were playing at a lower standard. Says it all for me
 
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