General Wolves News

[darlowolf64]

Aye...

"To make matters worse, one of three BAME managers in the top four divisions, QPR's Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink, has been sacked since the report's numbers were compiled, leaving only Chris Hughton at Brighton and Keith Curle at Carlisle"

 

[YoungWolf]

Can you explain why that is a lazy view?

As far as I can tell BAME make up around 4% of all educated coaches and so the employed coaches at top level represent this figure.

I fail to see the correlation between ex-player and senior coach. The top 4 coaches in Britain are not from the UK and barring Pep didn't have stellar playing careers. I fail to see what colour or playing career has to do with coaching ability. I think it's a lazy view to think a player would make a good coach.

Because it is not as simple as that. Just like it's not as simple to say 'English coaches aren't good enough' when there are so many different factors that come into play. A key one being opportunity.

The number of educated coaches is actually higher than the number of coaches within the game to my knowledge too.

The Rooney Rule isn't the perfect solution as there are obvious loopholes that clubs will exploit (another stain on our culture) but positive action is needed, barriers such a as a networks based reliance on recruitment, unconscious and conscious bias, subsequent lack of role models are all identified by key stakeholders and elite level BAME coaches.

The idea around being 'good enough' is problematic enough. There are many frauds out there who have kept getting jobs, like our good friend Dean who practically got the Chesterfield job based on his after dinner speeches. That sums it up for me.

And like I have said, representation is needed across the board if we want to create a more inclusive and diverse game. It appears to me that most simply don't care about that though.

 

[Premier Quality]

we have Seyi Olofinjana as a coach (Either U18 or U23) don't we?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Because it is not as simple as that. Just like it's not as simple to say 'English coaches aren't good enough' when there are so many different factors that come into play. A key one being opportunity.

The number of educated coaches is actually higher than the number of coaches within the game to my knowledge too.

The Rooney Rule isn't the perfect solution as there are obvious loopholes that clubs will exploit (another stain on our culture) but positive action is needed, barriers such a as a networks based reliance on recruitment, unconscious and conscious bias, subsequent lack of role models are all identified by key stakeholders and elite level BAME coaches.

The idea around being 'good enough' is problematic enough. There are many frauds out there who have kept getting jobs, like our good friend Dean who practically got the Chesterfield job based on his after dinner speeches. That sums it up for me.

And like I have said, representation is needed across the board if we want to create a more inclusive and diverse game. It appears to me that most simply don't care about that though.

I only care about Wolves employing the best candidate. They could be from Bilston or Mars and it wouldn't make a jot of difference to me.

What I do care about are ridiculous ideas that are obviously going to end up in an utterly pointless exercise in ticking a box to say a quota has been fulfilled, that makes no difference whatsoever to the final numbers being employed, or indeed the quality of coaches eventually chosen.

Get rid of the old tired network and new opportunities may well arise. However this sort of reporting doesn't help in the slightest. At the end of the day, there are a large number of BAME ex-players out there who simply have not bothered to get the qualifications. If you are to have a Rooney rule, then the potential interviewee to meet such a quota should at least be required to have the minimum licence. And a club that isn't approached by a BAME coach that is adequately qualified should not be required to expand the list of potential candidates to try and find a coach that ticks a box. That is pointless.

 

[visage]

What if the best candidate is a guy who actually ended up leaving the game because he perceived there was a lack of willingness to appoint BAME coaches?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I reiterate, I do not in any way believe that implementing the Rooney rule is the way to go at all. More encouragement to get qualified. THEN have some form of rule that adequately qualified BAME coaches who apply MUST be interviewed. That would work.

The current reporting is completely nonsensical.

 

[Johnny75]

Because it is not as simple as that. Just like it's not as simple to say 'English coaches aren't good enough' when there are so many different factors that come into play. A key one being opportunity.

I think this is the only factor. Clubs operate in a bubble so the employment market is inherently unfair to begin with, coaches that haven't played professionally are discriminated against when playing is not a relevant factor to coaching. Add to that the pressure of agents, the myth that foreign success will translate to domestic success and opportunity is whittled down to a few usual suspects who don't have the credentials. Look at our own Rob Edwards, finding his feet as a coach without the necessary experience to learn from (which is hopefully there now), how did he get the job and who else was interviewed for that?

I agree with you on role models but then you are asking football clubs to take a flyer on a candidate and they don't do that. They should do as I have said.

 

[Lord Knows]

I think this is the only factor. Clubs operate in a bubble so the employment market is inherently unfair to begin with, coaches that haven't played professionally are discriminated against when playing is not a relevant factor to coaching. Add to that the pressure of agents, the myth that foreign success will translate to domestic success and opportunity is whittled down to a few usual suspects who don't have the credentials. Look at our own Rob Edwards, finding his feet as a coach without the necessary experience to learn from (which is hopefully there now), how did he get the job and who else was interviewed for that?

I agree with you on role models but then you are asking football clubs to take a flyer on a candidate and they don't do that. They should do as I have said.

You often hear about a club having over a hundred applicants for the football managers role so how close do the club research each applicant before short listing from those applicants. Would better coaches lose out and be dismissed to the waste bin while those with profile gain opportunities.
What would be good procedure for someone like Kevin Thelwell?

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

Jeez! football is about success and money, so wheher the coach comes from China or Mars makes no one iota of difference. Clubs look at "can he get us in the Prem" end of, and frankly Ince couldn't order a cypro in my local Taverna for alcoholics.

There are very few BAME candidates available for interview, so the odds on them getting the job are simply lower. I just don't see the point of a token interview to meet a certain standard. BAME need to produce a list of available, suitable candidates and send it to every club.

Sadly it won't be a long list.

 

[YoungWolf]

. If you are to have a Rooney rule, then the potential interviewee to meet such a quota should at least be required to have the minimum licence. And a club that isn't approached by a BAME coach that is adequately qualified should not be required to expand the list of potential candidates to try and find a coach that ticks a box. That is pointless.

They are required to have a minimum license.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Ince does have his Pro Licence now FWIW. It did take him about six years longer than he promised but he has it now.

 

[Johnny75]

They are required to have a minimum license.

So the problem isn't with enough BAME getting opportunities but with actually getting BAME candidates?

 

[Kenny]

Wolves response

Wolves remain committed to voluntary code

Wolves have welcomed today’s statement from the EFL in response to the report published by theSports People’s Think Tank, in outlining the circumstances surrounding the appointments of Head Coaches Walter Zenga and Paul Lambert.
As shared with the EFL, the appointment of Walter Zenga came during exceptional circumstances and timescale during a transition of ownership, and Wolves explained why they didn’t adhere to the EFL’s voluntary recruitment code for Black & Ethnic Minority (BAME) coaches. This explanation was communicated to the EFL.
Again as outlined by the EFL, Wolves fully adhered to the voluntary code during the recruitment process resulting in the recent appointment of Paul Lambert.
Wolves have provided details of the two processes to the EFL as requested,and remain committed to the club’s role as one of the ten clubs which voluntarily put themselves forward to take part in the BAME recruitment process.
The club was not contacted by the SPTT during the compiling of this report, and is disappointed that it has been published containing inaccurate information relating to the appointment of Paul Lambert.

EFL Statement - http://www.efl.com/news/article/2016/efl-response-to-sports-peoples-think-tank-report-3419193.aspx

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

What I don't understand about the process is how you would go about meeting the criteria in the following scenario:

Lambert does a good solid job with us for the remainder of the season and hauls us to around 70 points, just outside the playoffs. Come the summer, Scotland have had enough of Strachan and get rid of him, Lambert decides he fancies a shot at managing his country and leaves. We decide that Graham Alexander is our man, he's stormed League One with Scunthorpe and we reckon he's the next big thing as far as the Football League goes.

Now we would be actively hunting Alexander if all that were to pan out. Seeking to attract one candidate above anyone else. Why would we be obliged to start interviewing people we don't really want and in the process possibly harm our prospects of getting our target as someone else - who hasn't signed up to this code - might nip in and just offer him another job while we're deliberating with a bit of a sham of a procedure?

 

[Johnny75]

Isn't headhunting different to advertising a job?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I'm not sure any professional team advertises for a manager as such. In Lambert's case, as far as we can tell from what he's said, we gave his people a nudge before we sacked Zenga.

 

[Tony Towner]

I don't see how the box ticking interviewing of Paul Ince furthers the BAME cause. Everyone knew he wouldn't get the job, so it seems a waste of time for all concerned and screams tokenism.

As has been said previously on this thread, by those who know more than I, there needs to be an increase in the number of qualified coaches which in turn hopefully will lead to more appointments at first team level. A Rooney rule would be a good thing once this is in place, I'm not sure now is that time.

 

[Doctor Doog]

The Indie report is clearly a rehash of the press release from the academic body. Part of the problem is that universities and the like need to attract mainstream attention by putting out over the top press releases, in order to get funding.

 

[croxdenabbey]

I don't see how the box ticking interviewing of Paul Ince furthers the BAME cause. Everyone knew he wouldn't get the job, so it seems a waste of time for all concerned and screams tokenism.

As has been said previously on this thread, by those who know more than I, there needs to be an increase in the number of qualified coaches which in turn hopefully will lead to more appointments at first team level. A Rooney rule would be a good thing once this is in place, I'm not sure now is that time.

Surely you interview the candidates that you are genuinely interested in, not some that you are interested in and some that you are not interested in but forced to interview, to tick a box. By having to have a token 'immigrant' just draws attention to the pathetic rules that have crept into our sceptred Isle, over the last few years. It's no wonder that the 'great unwashed' (and beyond) are rushing into the arms of the far right. Ridiculous!

 

[Tredman]

Because if you are black or from an ethnic minority you are an 'immigrant'? - its shit views like this that result in positive discrimination being necessary