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Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

So Long Architect said:
No-one's saying there is nobody doing that. But I have yet to see any evidence that it's anything other than a very insignifcant number. Certainly nothing that requires the kind of rhetoric we see from UKIP and others, and definitely not anything that demands wholesale changes to our laws, and our generally tolerant national outlook. Yes, I believe as a nation, we are a tolerant bunch - we must be, otherwise the vileness spouted by sections of the media and some political parties would have resulted in much greater unrest by now. Despite their best efforts, most people do just get on with their lives. I'd quite like it to stay that way.
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I see it with my own eyes, every day.
 
So Long Architect said:
No-one's saying there is nobody doing that. But I have yet to see any evidence that it's anything other than a very insignifcant number. Certainly nothing that requires the kind of rhetoric we see from UKIP and others, and definitely not anything that demands wholesale changes to our laws, and our generally tolerant national outlook. Yes, I believe as a nation, we are a tolerant bunch - we must be, otherwise the vileness spouted by sections of the media and some political parties would have resulted in much greater unrest by now. Despite their best efforts, most people do just get on with their lives. I'd quite like it to stay that way.
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I see it with my own eyes, every day.
 
North West Wanderer said:
Could you expand on this? I'd be interested to hear more.
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There's a guaranteed vote on withdrawal if the tories win the election. Now labours lead is down to 1% thats a possibility. Current polls indicate far more preference for leaving than staying in, so the vote would be swung by the belief in Cameron's EU reforms. there is serious debate about whether the UK has any ability to get reforms done, or even the image of reforms being done.

I'm not saying leaving the EU is likely - what I'm saying is that TSB's statement that we're not leaving, and voting for it is a wasted vote is untrue, as its definately a possibility.
 
Premier Quality said:
There's a guaranteed vote on withdrawal if the tories win the election.
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Do you think this will happen or is it just a ploy to get Tories shifting over to UKIP back on side? The Cynic in me always doubts when a Government states we will do this in the next term and then expect to be told that it is being "postponed" when that times comes
 
Always sensible to be cynical about government - but I'd imagine Cameron would struggle to go back on a "Cast Iron" pledge that will also be in his election manifesto with a defined date.
 
That is assuming the Tories can win an outright majority. I can't see the Lib Dems agreeing to such a manifesto pledge and I can't see the Tories getting a majority.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
That is assuming the Tories can win an outright majority. I can't see the Lib Dems agreeing to such a manifesto pledge and I can't see the Tories getting a majority.
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of course - my point is that a tory majority is now a possibility (Although not a likelihood), so to say its not happening and a wasted vote is overstating the facts.
 
I would love nothing more than to see the UK exit the hated European Union but in a general election it's a case of vote UKIP and get Labour. UKIP can and will win the European elections, mainly because that's what most people associate them with. A lot of people agree with their views on Europe and our relationship with its institutions, myself included.

I feel sorry for the good people of Ukraine. When they depose their government and get themselves lumbered with an EU puppet like Draghi for president they'll soon bin their pro-EU protests off.
 
agreed. The euro elections and the general election are very different animals. Will be interesting to see how well UKIP do in the euro elections in may, and how the other anti-EU parties across europe do, and then what difference it makes...
 
I think that UKIP will do well in any Euro or county council elections as that is an easy option for voters. Whether they gain a lot of support in a general election will be seen in 15 months time.
 
its not just an easy option though is it frank? Its an issue on its own. Its too easy to say any good performance by UKIP in the euro elections is merely a protest.

Maybe some of the voters actually want to leave the EU, but wouldn't necessarily want UKIP involved in a coalition government.
 
Premier Quality said:
of course - my point is that a tory majority is now a possibility (Although not a likelihood), so to say its not happening and a wasted vote is overstating the facts.
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A vote for the Tories would be a better vote if you want a guaranteed referendum. A vote for UKIP would make a hung parliament more likely and therefore a referendum less likely. So if you want to get out of Europe, voting for UKIP is not the answer.
 
Premier Quality said:
its not just an easy option though is it frank? Its an issue on its own. Its too easy to say any good performance by UKIP in the euro elections is merely a protest.

Maybe some of the voters actually want to leave the EU, but wouldn't necessarily want UKIP involved in a coalition government.
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Over the years, voters have tended to vote differently in by elections, European elections and Council elections than they do in a General Election. There have been some spectacular by election results over the years, people do tend to use these elections as a chance to protest.
As for UKIP, I do not like them or what they claim to stand for, but I also accept they could have a bearing of the outcome of the next General Election.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
We aren't coming out of the EU any time soon so it is a wasted vote in any case.
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The Saturday Boy said:
A vote for the Tories would be a better vote if you want a guaranteed referendum. A vote for UKIP would make a hung parliament more likely and therefore a referendum less likely. So if you want to get out of Europe, voting for UKIP is not the answer.
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I see what you mean - so potentially a vote for UKIP in the general election is a wasted vote where it would cause labour or the lib dems to get the seat, but not a wasted vote in the euro elections where they can gain seats - and I disagree with the statement that we're not coming out of the EU any time soon, as I think its a possibility.
 
Premier Quality said:
Always sensible to be cynical about government - but I'd imagine Cameron would struggle to go back on a "Cast Iron" pledge that will also be in his election manifesto with a defined date.
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Dave made a number of cast iron pledges & stuck to none of them. If he had, we wouldn't have a thread that's almost 150 pages long about it...
 
Papper said:
http://fullfact.org/factchecks/are_there_600000_unemployed_eu_migrants_in_the_uk-29237
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And those figures don't even factor in EU immigrants who have been in the country years if not decades who may have worked previously. For example,
if I were to be made redundant tomorrow I'd claim unemployment benefit, I've been in Germany 24 years why the hell shouldn't I?

The amount of people moving to the UK or Germany for that matter(closer and higher benefits) just in order to claim benefits must be so miniscule it's not even worth getting riled up about. That said I don't remember being able to claim anything while I was looking for work after I first arrived her either.
 
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