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Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

Thank you TSB, I have learnt a new word today. Sophistry - the use of clever but false arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

The UKIP haters would never do anything like that would they ?

TSB, I think you have previously said that you would like the UK to withdraw from the EU, or to at least make big changes to the terms of our membership, but not because of anything that UKIP stand for ?

Wny do you want us to leave the EU ? Or what changes do you think should be made to the terms of our membership, if of course the EU allowed us that luxury ?
 
keeptheexitsclear said:
Thank you TSB, I have learnt a new word today. Sophistry - the use of clever but false arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving.

The UKIP haters would never do anything like that would they ?

TSB, I think you have previously said that you would like the UK to withdraw from the EU, or to at least make big changes to the terms of our membership, but not because of anything that UKIP stand for ?

Wny do you want us to leave the EU ? Or what changes do you think should be made to the terms of our membership, if of course the EU allowed us that luxury ?
Click to expand...

I'm not pretending to speak for TSB or anyone else on this forum but I by and large agree with this article; http://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/eu-left/

I don't believe in leaving the EU but in massive reform including
- abandonment of the Lisbon treaty
- no EU/NA free trade agreement
- reintroduction of national currencies

UKIP and other right-wing/fascist parties in Europe might want an EU exit, but in no way do any of their beliefs match mine.
 
EdgeOfTheAlps said:
I'm not pretending to speak for TSB or anyone else on this forum but I by and large agree with this article; http://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/eu-left/

I don't believe in leaving the EU but in massive reform including
- abandonment of the Lisbon treaty
- no EU/NA free trade agreement
- reintroduction of national currencies

UKIP and other right-wing/fascist parties in Europe might want an EU exit, but in no way do any of their beliefs match mine.
Click to expand...

Speaking from a personal perspective, or at least a personal business perspective, I'd hate it if national currencies were reintroduced. I trade with about pretty much every European country and more besides and it's so much easier when it's a country with the euro. If every different nation had its own currency, my accounting would be an absolute nightmare.
 
EdgeOfTheAlps said:
I'm not pretending to speak for TSB or anyone else on this forum but I by and large agree with this article; http://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/eu-left/

I don't believe in leaving the EU but in massive reform including
- abandonment of the Lisbon treaty
- no EU/NA free trade agreement
- reintroduction of national currencies

UKIP and other right-wing/fascist parties in Europe might want an EU exit, but in no way do any of their beliefs match mine.
Click to expand...

Ripping up of the Lison treaty I agree with you but why introduce national currencies and getting rid of the EU/ NA trade agreement, what would that achieve?

I agree with the part of the article about the EU councils being unelected and that it is undemocratic and effectively a dictatorship in all but name and that is why would should wrest power back. However, the rest of it is in the tone of an overwrought sixth form student angry with life and is just noise.
 
Johnny75 said:
why introduce national currencies and getting rid of the EU/ NA trade agreement, what would that achieve?
Click to expand...

1) The Euro is unsustainable long term in it's current form without political unity in the form of a US of E (see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-euros-future-it-doesnt-have-one-6298180.html) Germany of course is fighting tooth and nail to keep the EURO in it's current form as it has benefited most from it's introduction.

2) I know you'll disagree with me, but primarily because of the Investor/State dispute settlement in the agreement. http://www.monbiot.com/2013/12/02/managing-transparency/
 
EdgeOfTheAlps said:
1) The Euro is unsustainable long term in it's current form without political unity in the form of a US of E (see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-euros-future-it-doesnt-have-one-6298180.html) Germany of course is fighting tooth and nail to keep the EURO in it's current form as it has benefited most from it's introduction.

2) I know you'll disagree with me, but primarily because of the Investor/State dispute settlement in the agreement. http://www.monbiot.com/2013/12/02/managing-transparency/
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree with either article but I can see the point. There is a fine line between competition and dictatorship by company but there is also the argument that state control needs to be reduced and both of the authors of those articles are clearly not on that side of the divide.
 
EdgeOfTheAlps said:
I'm not pretending to speak for TSB or anyone else on this forum but I by and large agree with this article; http://ceasefiremagazine.co.uk/eu-left/

I don't believe in leaving the EU but in massive reform including
- abandonment of the Lisbon treaty
- no EU/NA free trade agreement
- reintroduction of national currencies

UKIP and other right-wing/fascist parties in Europe might want an EU exit, but in no way do any of their beliefs match mine.
Click to expand...

Right wing/left wing fascism - it's all the same to me. I can't see a left or right just centre middle ground and successive governments that serve the financiers and corporations rather than the people. The bigger picture shows a global population and common interest so I don't really pay much credence to sovereignty.

The problem as I see it is the Capitalist system in itself and what manifests itself at those Bilderberger meetings. It's a closed shop and it's a tough nut to crack. It's not centralisation of power that concerns me, more the power brokers. War, famine and poverty should not be happening in 2014 and while it sounds cheesy we should never stop questioning and never accept the way it currently is. UKIP is anti-establishment and I feel they carry some merit but I will always remain suspicious.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
They are most certainly not ant-establishment. How could you come to such a staggering conclusion?
Click to expand...

When anything is in place to oppose the purple centre-ground I call them anti-establishment although as I said I have reservations, remain totally cynical and am far from a UKIP voter. I am glad there is something out there, although not entirely perfect, most probably part of the same machine that will question and oppose. Would UKIP unite? I am totally skeptical.
 
Papper said:
Right wing/left wing fascism - it's all the same to me. I can't see a left or right just centre middle ground and successive governments that serve the financiers and corporations rather than the people. The bigger picture shows a global population and common interest so I don't really pay much credence to sovereignty.

The problem as I see it is the Capitalist system in itself and what manifests itself at those Bilderberger meetings. It's a closed shop and it's a tough nut to crack. It's not centralisation of power that concerns me, more the power brokers. War, famine and poverty should not be happening in 2014 and while it sounds cheesy we should never stop questioning and never accept the way it currently is. UKIP is anti-establishment and I feel they carry some merit but I will always remain suspicious.
Click to expand...

Great post Papper
 
Papper said:
Cometh the revolution eh Pav ;-)
Click to expand...

you ain't saying anything i haven't believed or been saying , up to now, just can't work how your brain and UKIP fit in the same head.

I know what you are saying but just can't work out the link with the racist party, but i can't comment further as tonight i have had (courtesy of 4 austrian visitors) enough cypro to float the ark royal. I know,old analalogy, but i am old.
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
you ain't saying anything i haven't believed or been saying , up to now, just can't work how your brain and UKIP fit in the same head.

I know what you are saying but just can't work out the link with the racist party, but i can't comment further as tonight i have had (courtesy of 4 austrian visitors) enough cypro to float the ark royal. I know,old analalogy, but i am old.
Click to expand...

I've re-read these posts and I get the feeling that a few think that UKIP exists to attract racists but for the life of me I do not see their immigration policy as being unduly racist. You can't counter a genuine concern amongst the proles ( mass cheap economic migration ) or dismiss it solely because it will have the genuine racists clapping and cheering. The UKIP doesn't exist for racists but putting the people of this country first is not in my opinion racist.

I am far from took in by images of "Spitfires and Vera Lynn" and while that may be the preserve of the BNP or EDL I do not get that with UKIP. Hey, I'm open minded and prepared to listen but I feel UKIP will represent our diverse country without question. It is imperative that all racists, sexists or homophobes are not given a voice regardless of the party they support or represent but you don't get a sledgehammer to crack a few nuts. The establishment don't want them and I feel the more they cry racist the more support UKIP will get. I hope I see live debates, more to see the purple lot that people have had enough of given a bloody nose and although I am far from a UKIP voter I see it all as totally representative and democratic. In my opinion this all means Miliband will be elected and I wouldn't instantly dismiss him
 
The Eurozone will never be sustainable even with a "United States of Europe". How can you have a currency union between countries with vastly different economies at different stages of the economic cycle without the whole thing screaming "politically motivated vanity project"? It will collapse one day. It's no different to any other artificial Monopoly-esque currency.
 
ok someone explain, where did KTEC's ban come from, i just can't see anything on here.

you know what they say, keep your friends close and your enemies closer still
 
pavlosmacwolf said:
ok someone explain, where did KTEC's ban come from, i just can't see anything on here.

you know what they say, keep your friends close and your enemies closer still
Click to expand...

It was from the Clarkson thread, and the duration was due to it being the latest in a long line of offences.
 
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