Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

[The Saturday Boy]

That's just it, I don't know for sure that it's a protest vote ? How can we know that for sure ? If it is, how do we know what percentage of people are using it is a protest vote and what do you think it is that they are 'Protesting' about ? Is it "Oh I don't like Labour or Tory at the moment, I know, I'll go and vote for a load of Racist, Sexist, Homophobes who blame the immigrants for everything"

I wouldn't say that Immigration was the Crux of my position, but I am certainly not happy about the number of immigrants that have been allowed into the UK in such a short period of time, particularly the unskilled immigrants.

You think that UKIP are FULL of Xenophobes, Racists, Sexists and Homophobes. I don't. Perhaps you have hand-picked a couple of stories to help you to reinforce that view and tar everyone who supports UKIP with the same brush ?

If we were to use that logic, when Gordon Brown said that Gillian Duffy (a life long Labour Supporter), was 'A Bigoted Woman' because she had concerns about the number of Eastern Europeans coming into the country, do we assume that all Labour MP's treat all their supporters who share her concerns, with the same contempt that Brown did ?

All your arguments point to you believing it is a protest vote. Sure, there will be a rump of committed UKIP supporters who would vote for them whatever but Euro elections aside their performance at the ballot box is really poor.

To clarify, I wasn't suggesting that immigration was the crux of your position - it was the "changes taking place" as a result of the immigrants that I believe drives your support for UKIP. It isn't immigration you gave a problem with it appears to be the immigrants themselves. We have read your views on this before, some on here have drawn their own conclusions based on what you write.

And I am not suggesting that people who support UKIP are xenophobes, racists, sexist and homophobes - I am saying UKIP (the party) is. These are the people that voters are enabling with their vote. Some who support them may also share those traits but I never suggested that everyone who supports them does. Your Gordon Brown analogy is, therefore, erroneous.

 

[andyc225]

I'll be voting Labour because like the turkey, I enjoy voting for Christmas.

 

[So Long Architect]

Well by all accounts they have a great chance of winning the Euro Election so I would say it's a pretty Big number

Well, the Euro elections typically attract a turnout of around 35% of the electorate and UKIP will receive a percentage of that 35%. So the actual number won't really be that huge and certainly won't be representative of the views of most "ordinary people". The amount of people who *don't* vote UKIP will massively outweigh the number that do.

Of course if the turnout is over 50% and UKIP win nearly all of the votes, then I'll happily come back and eat my words.

 

[lemonjelly]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-eu-elections-poster-boy-andre-lampitt-suspended-after-racist-tweets-come-to-light-9284136.html

But despite appearing to be an immigrant himself from Zimbabwe – or Rhodesia as he prefers to call it – it was Mr Lampitt’s other views which landed in him hot water with the party of which he is a member.

In a series of Tweets going back over more than a year he reveals his thoughts on everything from Muslims, to AIDS, Syria and forced sterilisation.

They do not make pretty reading.

“Get over it, slavery was an act of war,” he wrote on 19 March. “You lost stop being so damn jealous and move forward.”

Then in response to two other Twitter users he wrote: “Muslims are animals their faith is disgusting their prophet is (a) pedophile”. (sic)

Other forthright views included on Ed Miliband (“He is Polish and not British so how'd he know what's good for Britain?”), Africa (“I was born and grew up in Africa please leave Africa for the Africans lets them kill themselves off don’t go there”) and Syria (“When I voted they did not tell me they would spend our tax money on Syrians I'm sorry but this is unfair”)

Such fine well rounded people. I do hope the likes of them represent me. Not.

 

[arklowolf]

Such fine well rounded people. I do hope the likes of them represent me. Not.[/QUOTE]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100127409/was-diane-abbotts-tweet-racist/

Does this racist represent you better LJ? She is literally well rounded.

 

[arklowolf]

Wot I said yesterday like.
Today the left-leaning press are in agreement:
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...britains-most-workingclass-party-9236118.html

 

[keeptheexitsclear]

Such fine well rounded people. I do hope the likes of them represent me. Not.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tobyyoung/100127409/was-diane-abbotts-tweet-racist/

Does this racist represent you better LJ? She is literally well rounded.[/QUOTE]

Touche, Arklowolf.

Proves that we can all play that pathetic little game.

She is a fine upstanding Socialist. Now, can anyone remind me which Comprehensive school she sent her Son to ? Of course all Socialists are equal but some of them are more equal than others.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Diane Abbott is an absolute loose cannon. I really have no idea why she still has a modicum of power within the labour movement. Possibly too dangerous to bin her off as she would really go to town and damage the party and she would never resign?

The thing for me is that her nonsense is a real stand out because of its scarcity. It seems that virtually everyone fronting up within UKIP is tripping over themselves to get caught up in some issue or other.

Are you going to call me loony left again soon? Please?

As a person who has voted Conservative at every election since they got the vote, it is quite liberating to be called a leftie.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

What has all this schooling got to do with the price of fish as well? For a start Nigel Farage went to Dulwich College which is independent and fee-paying so I can't see how you can differentiate him from, say, Cameron, on that front?

 

[keeptheexitsclear]

What has all this schooling got to do with the price of fish as well? For a start Nigel Farage went to Dulwich College which is independent and fee-paying so I can't see how you can differentiate him from, say, Cameron, on that front?

Fair enough. Whether we are Socialists or Capitalists, we are all Capitalists really aren't we ? But do you not detect the slightest whiff of hypocrisy when an apparent Socialist sends her kid to a Private School ? Or has she re-written the book on Socialism ?

As for the Nutter who associated himself with UKIP. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the media trawled through online social media websites or did some serious 'digging' on members and supporters of the Tory, Labour, Lib Dem parties. UKIP haven't got the monopoly on Morons but they are a high profile party now and maybe the media has it's own personal agenda ? Fortunately now, most people can see through this sort of nonsense, that's why it hasn't affected their popularity. I'm sure there will be more 'shock-horror revelations' before 22nd May.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I think the reason that the revelation after revelation hasn't affected popularity for UKIP is that they actually have a core support who would pretty much vote UKIP in a European election no matter what was going on, and very few of that core support have been dissuaded from voting UKIP. However, in the same way as the debates will have been unlikely to have suddenly made voters for other parties jump on board in particularly great numbers, the very well-publicised campaign (I won't call it slick because I actually find the posters rather distasteful, but what cannot be argued with is the fact it has been high profile) isn't going to suddenly garner huge numbers of new UKIP voters.

I fully expect a fairly simialr performance for UKIP to the last Euro elections. Possibly a few more seats and maybe a small percentage improvement in vote share. There is no danger of them winning the election though. And like I keep saying fairly regularly on this thread, they really need to do something in the UK general election to increase their credibility, but they come unstuck in that campaign as they have effectively one policy, and that isn't enough when it really matters.

 

[So Long Architect]

Fair enough. Whether we are Socialists or Capitalists, we are all Capitalists really aren't we ? But do you not detect the slightest whiff of hypocrisy when an apparent Socialist sends her kid to a Private School ? Or has she re-written the book on Socialism ?

As for the Nutter who associated himself with UKIP. It would be interesting to see what would happen if the media trawled through online social media websites or did some serious 'digging' on members and supporters of the Tory, Labour, Lib Dem parties. UKIP haven't got the monopoly on Morons but they are a high profile party now and maybe the media has it's own personal agenda ? Fortunately now, most people can see through this sort of nonsense, that's why it hasn't affected their popularity. I'm sure there will be more 'shock-horror revelations' before 22nd May.

Yeah, cos there's absolutely no right-wing media in this country trying to dig up dirt on people they disagree with, is there? How about Ed Miliband's father? Or the Telegraph and Diane Abbott? (it's just up there, did you see it?)

And the left wing media (such as it is), does similar with conservative politicians.

So all parties have their enemies in the press, and UKIP, much as they like to portray themselves as victims of some conspiracy aren't special in anything other than the proportion of nutjobs and easy targets they have in the party.

 

[arklowolf]

Yeah, cos there's absolutely no right-wing media in this country trying to dig up dirt on people they disagree with, is there? How about Ed Miliband's father? Or the Telegraph and Diane Abbott? (it's just up there, did you see it?)

And the left wing media (such as it is), does similar with conservative politicians.

So all parties have their enemies in the press, and UKIP, much as they like to portray themselves as victims of some conspiracy aren't special in anything other than the proportion of nutjobs and easy targets they have in the party.

Fact is, journalists write for their audience, that's what they are paid to do, that's what sells 'their' particular paper. I should know I spent years printing, the Sun, Mirror, Telegraph, Star and Independent on the same presses every night. There are Tory readerships and there are Labour readerships, UKIP are maybe taking a hit from both sides at the moment. If The Sun were to back UKIP before the next general election, you can expect them to win some seats. - It could happen if The Sun's management thinks it will sell more copy because of it. hnoes:
Ever wondered why Labour and Conservatives have never dared put VAT on newspapers?

 

[keeptheexitsclear]

Yeah, cos there's absolutely no right-wing media in this country trying to dig up dirt on people they disagree with, is there? How about Ed Miliband's father? Or the Telegraph and Diane Abbott? (it's just up there, did you see it?)

And the left wing media (such as it is), does similar with conservative politicians.

So all parties have their enemies in the press, and UKIP, much as they like to portray themselves as victims of some conspiracy aren't special in anything other than the proportion of nutjobs and easy targets they have in the party.

I agree with much of what you say there. I think UKIP are just trying to 'play the game', like all the others ?

As for the lovely Ms. Abbott, it's interesting that no-one on 'The Left' thought that her comments were Racist ? Depending on where our politics lie, this will inevitably influence our personal feelings towards certain political figures and we attack or defend them accordingly.

For example, some people will find UKIP distasteful whilst at the same time they will say that Diane Abbott did not say anything at all Racist with her comments, when she said "White people love playing divide and rule.....we should not play their game". To me that was clearly a Racist remark but the 'Left Wing intellectuals' were quick to explain to the Plebs why her comments were of course just 'taken out of context'.

Interesting that the 'right-wing rag', The Daily Mail, seem to have more of an anti-UKIP agenda than any other 'news' paper, judging by the amount of 'news' items they dig up on a very tiny minority of Morons who have associated themselves with UKIP.

Perhaps they are more worried about the amount of votes that UKIP may take from the Tories ?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I don't know about intellectual but I'd probably be described as left wing (to a point) and I found Diane Abbott's comments extremely crass. That said I have no time whatsoever for her and that applied equally before she made them.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

I agree with much of what you say there. I think UKIP are just trying to 'play the game', like all the others ?

As for the lovely Ms. Abbott, it's interesting that no-one on 'The Left' thought that her comments were Racist ? Depending on where our politics lie, this will inevitably influence our personal feelings towards certain political figures and we attack or defend them accordingly.

For example, some people will find UKIP distasteful whilst at the same time they will say that Diane Abbott did not say anything at all Racist with her comments, when she said "White people love playing divide and rule.....we should not play their game". To me that was clearly a Racist remark but the 'Left Wing intellectuals' were quick to explain to the Plebs why her comments were of course just 'taken out of context'.

Couple of questions. Are you really saying that everyone on the left didn't find her comments racist and offensive? That is an awful lot of people you must know intimately. (That last sentence makes me shudder).

Who explained the comments as "taken out of context"?

 

[keeptheexitsclear]

Couple of questions. Are you really saying that everyone on the left didn't find her comments racist and offensive? That is an awful lot of people you must know intimately. (That last sentence makes me shudder).

Who explained the comments as "taken out of context"?

No, I am sure that some people on the left found her comments offensive, but either the ones that did were not very vocal or the left wing media thought it may stir up a hornets nest by saying what they really felt and at the end of the day she still kept her job. Such is the joy of politics and supporting people, even when they are in the wrong ?

I am sure the Guardian ran a piece explaining why it was taken out of context, The New Statesman certainly used the phrase.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/white-abbott-black-context

As for the Right Wing / Left Wing issue, it's interesting that some Labour voters will be voting for UKIP in May. I voted for Labour in 1997 because it felt like the right thing to do at the time. Things have changed since then and maybe some people are voting accordingly ? UKIP 'weren't needed' in 1997, but perhaps people see the need to vote for them now because of our current relationship with Europe and the way the country has changed since 1997 ?

As for you shuddering, would you kindly cut out the personal insults and stick to the point please.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

No, I am sure that some people on the left found her comments offensive, but either the ones that did were not very vocal or the left wing media thought it may stir up a hornets nest by saying what they really felt and at the end of the day she still kept her job. Such is the joy of politics and supporting people, even when they are in the wrong ?

I am sure the Guardian ran a piece explaining why it was taken out of context, The New Statesman certainly used the phrase.

http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/white-abbott-black-context

As for the Right Wing / Left Wing issue, it's interesting that some Labour voters will be voting for UKIP in May. I voted for Labour in 1997 because it felt like the right thing to do at the time. Things have changed since then and maybe some people are voting accordingly ? UKIP 'weren't needed' in 1997, but perhaps people see the need to vote for them now because of our current relationship with Europe and the way the country has changed since 1997 ?

As for you shuddering, would you kindly cut out the personal insults and stick to the point please.

I am hardly likely to take lectures from you when it comes to personal abuse. I know why you enjoy coming on this board. You have taken the shuddering comment out of context, it was in relation to being intimate with you - intimate in a sexual way being the innuendo. Maybe it's because you are a poor, down trodden working class white man that explains why you have such thin skin.

The link you provided is about half way down the first page when you do a google search "Diane Abbott racist" - that's some impressive research you've done there to come to the conclusion that "no-one on the left" thought her comments racist.

 

[visage]

it's interesting that some Labour voters will be voting for UKIP in May

Isnt that phrase inherently contradictory?

 

[keeptheexitsclear]

I am hardly likely to take lectures from you when it comes to personal abuse. I know why you enjoy coming on this board. You have taken the shuddering comment out of context, it was in relation to being intimate with you - intimate in a sexual way being the innuendo. Maybe it's because you are a poor, down trodden working class white man that explains why you have such thin skin.

The link you provided is about half way down the first page when you do a google search "Diane Abbott racist" - that's some impressive research you've done there to come to the conclusion that "no-one on the left" thought her comments racist.

Diane Abbott's comments were back in January 2012. At that time I did not recall The Guardian, The Observer, The Morning Star or The Daily Mirror et al, describing her comments as Racist. But it was over two years ago, so yes, I went back onto Google yesterday to see if I could find a link that may have disproved what I had originally thought. After three or four pages, we see comments like 'out of context' or 'foolish' and 'she is not a Racist'. I still could not find anything from 'the left' that felt that her comments were Racist. Can you ?

In the past, yes I have given you, and others on here, some personal abuse, some of it in retaliation, and for that I apologise and I can assure you that it won't happen again. I understood your personal comments in your previous posts and their context. I just don't wish to 'respond' to those sort of comments anymore.