• Welcome, guest!

    This is a forum devoted to discussion of Wolverhampton Wanderers.
    Why not sign up and contribute? Registered members get a fully ad-free experience!

Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

I would consider myself working class and UKIP certainly doesn't represent me.
 
I am fervently against any kind of class system and UKIP certainly doesn't represent me.
 
UKIP's latest campaign video is excellent - hard hitting and very polished.
 
Heard on the news today that Farage has offered David Moyes a senior position within UKIP as he got Manchester United out of Europe...

























No joke either!
 
arklowolf said:
I'm afraid the arrogant, university brainwashed, middle classes of the Labour party are blind to the fact that the working class doesn't feel represented by them anymore, and that is where a lot of UKIP's vote will come from. Well hey-ho.
All any of the parties need to do is represent the working class and UKIP will disappear.
Click to expand...

UKIP hardly represent the working classes though do they. A lot of their policies would see the working classes worse off than they are now.
 
One policy - leave Europe. One tactic - blame immigrants. UKIP represent their own self interest.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
One policy - leave Europe. One tactic - blame immigrants. UKIP represent their own self interest.
Click to expand...

If that's true, then the number of people predicted to vote for UKIP in the Euro Elections don't appear to care ?

We expect the Tories to abandon the working classes, we don't expect it from Labour. In a General Election a vote for UKIP may appear like a wasted vote with the perception being that no-one will vote for them. In a Euro Election maybe people think that their voice will be heard ?

In the second TV debate with Farage, in reply to a question about what the 'European Union would look like in 10 years' time, Nick Clegg said he thought it would be "pretty much the same" as now. (Source below - The Guardian)

Is that really the best that the 'pro-Euro' camp can come up with as a reason to stay in ??? No wonder he was completely 'out-played' by Farage. Is this sort of complacency and perhaps a lack of understanding of the issues facing the working classes and how we / they feel, contributing towards UKIP's popularity ? It was as if he was holding us in contempt. Does he thing we are not intelligent enough to discuss the issues as to why he thinks it's so important that we stay in the EU ? Maybe this is why he resorted to personal attacks on Farage, which completely back-fired ? Despite all of the scare tactics, arguably on both sides, support for UKIP is still increasing. The Pro-Europeans have to ask themselves...why ??

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...pe-ukip-pro-europeans-nigel-farage-nick-clegg

The Guardian article goes on to say "UKIP is currently riding a powerful wave of public hostility to both Europe and the Westminster parties and one result is that the Faragistes will do extremely well at the Euro-elections this May".

Maybe this is the crux of the matter TSB ? With regards to your last post, this 'Public Hostility' towards Europe and LIB / LAB / CON seems to be overriding everything else ?
 
keeptheexitsclear said:
If that's true, then the number of people predicted to vote for UKIP in the Euro Elections don't appear to care ?.....

Maybe this is the crux of the matter TSB ? With regards to your last post, this 'Public Hostility' towards Europe and LIB / LAB / CON seems to be overriding everything else ?
Click to expand...

In the absence of a realistic protest vote, UKIP are benefiting. That doesn't make them anything other than a single issue party who campaign on people's fears.

Immigrants aren't the problem, if there is any problem it is with immigration policy. Unfortunately they, and their more vociferous supporters, don't differentiate between the two. It is unpleasant. They are unpleasant.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
In the absence of a realistic protest vote, UKIP are benefiting. That doesn't make them anything other than a single issue party who campaign on people's fears.

Immigrants aren't the problem, if there is any problem it is with immigration policy. Unfortunately they, and their more vociferous supporters, don't differentiate between the two. It is unpleasant. They are unpleasant.
Click to expand...

I don't think UKIP are unpleasant at all and I'm not sure a vote for UKIP is a protest vote when none of the other parties want us to leave the EU. They are the only party to vote for if you want to send a message to Westminster that says 'we want to come out of Europe'. You say there is a problem with the immigration policy. How does any UK Government go about changing that ? The perception is that they are powerless to change it.

As for 'campaigning on people's fears', I'm not sure whether to say the Electorate are intelligent enough to differentiate between scaremongering and reality, or whether to say they are gullible and easily fooled. After all, the Electorate voted Tony Blair in for three consecutive terms as Prime Minister (and he still hasn't been tried for war crimes). Now he IS unpleasant !

Maybe UKIP are just 'Boxing Clever' and saying the right things, and doing what they need to do, to win ?? Whatever they are doing, it seems to be working.
 
keeptheexitsclear said:
I don't think UKIP are unpleasant at all and I'm not sure a vote for UKIP is a protest vote when none of the other parties want us to leave the EU. They are the only party to vote for if you want to send a message to Westminster that says 'we want to come out of Europe'. You say there is a problem with the immigration policy. How does any UK Government go about changing that ? The perception is that they are powerless to change it.

As for 'campaigning on people's fears', I'm not sure whether to say the Electorate are intelligent enough to differentiate between scaremongering and reality, or whether to say they are gullible and easily fooled. After all, the Electorate voted Tony Blair in for three consecutive terms as Prime Minister (and he still hasn't been tried for war crimes). Now he IS unpleasant !

Maybe UKIP are just 'Boxing Clever' and saying the right things, and doing what they need to do, to win ?? Whatever they are doing, it seems to be working.
Click to expand...

Single issue party - how is that not a protest vote? You even acknowledge that yourself in your post suggesting that they are the only party that says "come out of Europe". Most of their other "policies" relate to Europe in one way or another.

I didn't say there was a problem with immigration policy, I said that if there was a problem it is with immigration policy not with immigrants - UKIP target immigrants because they know it plays on (generally unfounded) fears. That's why they talk about Romanians and Bulgarians rather than argue about immigration policy, because they want to whip up a fervour. The reality is that we haven't faced a massive influx of either.

The other parties do the same when it comes to their war on terror - there is no real justification for the billions wasted on foreign soil, the lives of the armed forces and the many, many more innocent civilians who have lost their lives in a war that we created. More people die in this country from the direct and indirect effect if alcohol than terrorism. A sobering thought.

UKIP are full of xenophobes and racists, sexists and homophobes. They are unpleasant to the core. They don't represent anything that is good about this country.

If the only thing they have to offer the electorate is "get out of Europe" then they aren't fit or capable to govern - most people know that and most people understand that they don't stand a chance of actually getting into power...so they are the place for people to protest.
 
Never been a fan of the First Past the Post system, I believe in next years General Election I will alter that opinion.

I do take Keepthe.....point about the "working class", however defined feeling disenfranchised by the current Labour leadership though.
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Single issue party - how is that not a protest vote? You even acknowledge that yourself in your post suggesting that they are the only party that says "come out of Europe". Most of their other "policies" relate to Europe in one way or another.

I didn't say there was a problem with immigration policy, I said that if there was a problem it is with immigration policy not with immigrants - UKIP target immigrants because they know it plays on (generally unfounded) fears. That's why they talk about Romanians and Bulgarians rather than argue about immigration policy, because they want to whip up a fervour. The reality is that we haven't faced a massive influx of either.

The other parties do the same when it comes to their war on terror - there is no real justification for the billions wasted on foreign soil, the lives of the armed forces and the many, many more innocent civilians who have lost their lives in a war that we created. More people die in this country from the direct and indirect effect if alcohol than terrorism. A sobering thought.

UKIP are full of xenophobes and racists, sexists and homophobes. They are unpleasant to the core. They don't represent anything that is good about this country.

If the only thing they have to offer the electorate is "get out of Europe" then they aren't fit or capable to govern - most people know that and most people understand that they don't stand a chance of actually getting into power...so they are the place for people to protest.
Click to expand...

If people felt that UKIP were full of Xenophobes, Racists, Sexists and Homophobes, then surely they would not be continuing to grow in popularity and would surely have no chance of winning the Euro Election ?

Or is it the case that in a Euro Election, unlike a General Election, we finally get to have our say on what we think about the UK's relationship with Europe ? We all know that UKIP will barely get half a dozen seats in a General Election let alone win it. (Our 'first past the post' system will see to that anyway) Its always down to Labour and Tory, with the Lib Dems latterly holding the balance of power. This is where voters get torn. Labour voters who want to see us come out of the EU or at least see us take control of our own borders and immigration policy, will be frustrated by the Labour party's current stance on Europe. The ones who are not happy with the current situation may not want to ditch the party they have always supported, so maybe voting for a Single Issue Party in a Euro Election is a compromise they are prepared to take at the expense of the party they would usually vote for in a General Election.

I don't think UKIP are whipping up a fervour. I don't think they need to. People can see the changes taking place in their home towns and cities and have seen large scale immigration coming into the UK in a very short period of time. It is for them to judge if they think it is having a detrimental effect on our infrastructure. I just think that some of them are saying 'enough is enough'. They are saying that although they would not vote for UKIP in a General Election, what is the best way for us to try and force a change that will either enable the UK to have more control over its border policy and immigration policy ? At the moment, if we are looking to try and bring about such a change, then I don't see any other option than voting for UKIP in May.

This was not a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the UKIP Party :)
 
keeptheexitsclear said:
If people felt that UKIP were full of Xenophobes, Racists, Sexists and Homophobes, then surely they would not be continuing to grow in popularity and would surely have no chance of winning the Euro Election ?

I think they are full of xenophobes, racists, sexists and homophobes.

Or is it the case that in a Euro Election, unlike a General Election, we finally get to have our say on what we think about the UK's relationship with Europe ? We all know that UKIP will barely get half a dozen seats in a General Election let alone win it.

Yes, in the Euros It us a protest vote. They won't get half a dozen seats in 2015.

(Our 'first past the post' system will see to that anyway) Its always down to Labour and Tory, with the Lib Dems latterly holding the balance of power. This is where voters get torn. Labour voters who want to see us come out of the EU or at least see us take control of our own borders and immigration policy, will be frustrated by the Labour party's current stance on Europe. The ones who are not happy with the current situation may not want to ditch the party they have always supported, so maybe voting for a Single Issue Party in a Euro Election is a compromise they are prepared to take at the expense of the party they would usually vote for in a General Election.

You are successfully arguing that it would be a protest vote, something you previously said it wasn't.


I don't think UKIP are whipping up a fervour. I don't think they need to. People can see the changes taking place in their home towns and cities and have seen large scale immigration coming into the UK in a very short period of time.

So now we get to the crux of your position - it is about the immigrants nit the policy.

It is for them to judge if they think it is having a detrimental effect on our infrastructure. I just think that some of them are saying 'enough is enough'. They are saying that although they would not vote for UKIP in a General Election, what is the best way for us to try and force a change that will either enable the UK to have more control over its border policy and immigration policy ? At the moment, if we are looking to try and bring about such a change, then I don't see any other option than voting for UKIP in May.

So a protest vote then?

This was not a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the UKIP Party :)
Click to expand...

Are you sure you're nit sure that a vote for UKIP isn't a protest vote?
 
The Saturday Boy said:
Are you sure you're not sure that a vote for UKIP isn't a protest vote?
Click to expand...

That's just it, I don't know for sure that it's a protest vote ? How can we know that for sure ? If it is, how do we know what percentage of people are using it is a protest vote and what do you think it is that they are 'Protesting' about ? Is it "Oh I don't like Labour or Tory at the moment, I know, I'll go and vote for a load of Racist, Sexist, Homophobes who blame the immigrants for everything"

I wouldn't say that Immigration was the Crux of my position, but I am certainly not happy about the number of immigrants that have been allowed into the UK in such a short period of time, particularly the unskilled immigrants.

You think that UKIP are FULL of Xenophobes, Racists, Sexists and Homophobes. I don't. Perhaps you have hand-picked a couple of stories to help you to reinforce that view and tar everyone who supports UKIP with the same brush ?

If we were to use that logic, when Gordon Brown said that Gillian Duffy (a life long Labour Supporter), was 'A Bigoted Woman' because she had concerns about the number of Eastern Europeans coming into the country, do we assume that all Labour MP's treat all their supporters who share her concerns, with the same contempt that Brown did ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

darlowolf64
  • Locked
The Clique and how to join it...
Replies
6
Views
2K
The Bear
The Bear
Back
Top