Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

[keeptheexitsclear]

If you read responses in threads it's fairly clear where I am on most things. Out of interest, is it just immigration that bothers you? I ask as I haven't seen a single positive economic case put forward by you on leaving Europe. It seems to be based on the premise we'll get a better deal if we left but with nothing to back it up. Andy tried and failed miserably above. I would say this is fairly important and far more important than immigration, so can you put the case forward?

Ok I will. But first can you address one of the statistics I have raised more than once on this forum.
That in the 2009 Euro Elections, over 300,000 people in the West Midlands voted for UKIP, (founded in 1993) beating Labour (founded in 1900) into third place with 240,000 votes. UKIP's popularity has obviously increased since 2009 and they will surely have an increased share of the vote this time round.

With this in mind, is it right for you and others on here, to be so dismissive of a party that has garnered such support ?

 

[Sniffer]

UKIP are a protest vote, nothing more, nothing less. They will do well in the euro elections where quite frankly nobody gives a monkeys chuff who represents them. They will be lucky to win one seat in a general election where a vote really does matter to people.

I recall the greens doing really well in the euro elections in 1989?. That hardly changed the political landscape did it.

 

[Bit on the shaggies]

Any move by the UK which threatens to effectively derail the EU will be met with punitive measures from the remaining member countries, it's just like telling Scotland that they can't have the pound if they leave the UK but on much a bigger scale. Germany and France would be furious and willing to make an example of Britain in order to ward other Member States from doing the same. Britain has a lot more to lose than Europe does if it all goes tit for tat.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

Ok I will. But first can you address one of the statistics I have raised more than once on this forum.
That in the 2009 Euro Elections, over 300/000 people in the West Midlands voted for UKIP, (founded in 1993) beating Labour (founded in 1900) into third place with 240,000 votes. The popularity has obviously increased since 2009 and they will surely have an increased share of the vote this time round.

With this in mind, is it right for you and others on here, to be so dismissive of a party that has garnered such support ?

We are talking Euro elections with those figures. Which really aren't going to give anything resembling power. UKIP have one Euro MP in Farage, even with that vote. It is the election that focuses on pretty much the only policy UKIP has, as well.

UKIP performing to that level in UK general election would possibly make people take note. In 2010 they got 919,471 votes across the entire UK. I suspect that the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberals did rather better than that.

Conservatives: 10,703,654
Labour: 8,606,517
Liberal: 6,836,268

Scarily, even the BNP got over 550,000 votes

 

[Johnny75]

Ok I will. But first can you address one of the statistics I have raised more than once on this forum.
That in the 2009 Euro Elections, over 300/000 people in the West Midlands voted for UKIP, (founded in 1993) beating Labour (founded in 1900) into third place with 240,000 votes. The popularity has obviously increased since 2009 and they will surely have an increased share of the vote this time round.

With this in mind, is it right for you and others on here, to be so dismissive of a party that has garnered such support ?

Please answer the question put to you and I will yours.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

At the last general election UKIP garnered considerably more votes that the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the DUP, Sinn Fein, and so on. However, those parties target the votes to certain areas (for obvious reasons) which then means they get seats. UKIP hasn't got that pull to get any foothold at Westminster.

However, they can keep going for Euro seats. Attempting to win seats for an institution you want to be out of is rather strange.

 

[visage]

Not when its so lucrative....

 

[Johnny75]

It doesn't matter whether I pick imports or exports to make my point, or at which end of the market a particular company is situated. Companies on the Continent are not suddenly going to stop doing business with the UK if we leave the EU. It would be business as usual, so to speak, but the Lib Dems wouldn't like you to think it. The Spanish Costas won't suddenly stop accepting the millions of Euros that British tourists put into their coffers, nor will German car manufacturers. If Britain were to leave the EU, we'd instantly become the common market's biggest export market. Can an economy with a non-optimal currency union in a permanent state of recession afford to cut us off?

Money makes the world go around as far as we in Britain are concerned, not a non-existent European identity. I've lived in Brussels, I've lived in Germany and I've lived in Finland but I don't feel any more European as a consequence. British people simply don't consider themselves to be "proud Europeans" and that'll never go away, no matter what the latest integrationist clones to graduate from the Natolin College of Europe think.

Of course it matters which companies and whether they're imports or exports and it only underlines your narrow opinion and experience of one industry. Real products, services and employment are key to any economy, if the UK were to pull out of these how many relocate to Luxembourg or Holland or Ireland who offer better tax breaks and employment as the UK becomes suddenly unstable and do you really think politicians want an unstable environment. Not to mention energy supply which the last Labour government sold off, now becomes suddenly very unstable as the EU flexes its muscles.

If you think money is the be all and end all then you know very little of the human condition and politics. So far your objection to the EU is because it hits our financial markets, boo fucking hoo. It's about time those greedy, vapid, weasely morally bankrupt fucks got shafted as the rest of us did.

 

[keeptheexitsclear]

UKIP are a protest vote, nothing more, nothing less. They will do well in the euro elections where quite frankly nobody gives a monkeys chuff who represents them. They will be lucky to win one seat in a general election where a vote really does matter to people.

I recall the greens doing really well in the euro elections in 1989?. That hardly changed the political landscape did it.

The landscape of the UK however, has drastically changed since 1989. Tony Blair saw to that in 2004 when he was the only Leader of a European Country to LIFT border controls !!

Having allowed the UK to be flooded with immigrants since then, because we no longer have a choice, maybe you should ask yourself why Liebour won't give the British Electorate a Referendum on Europe ?

If we all love the multicultural heaven that you so obviously cherish, another one of the 'benefits' of being in the EU, then why have so many white people moved out of London ?

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

That just doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[keeptheexitsclear]

We are talking Euro elections with those figures. Which really aren't going to give anything resembling power. UKIP have one Euro MP in Farage, even with that vote. It is the election that focuses on pretty much the only policy UKIP has, as well.

UKIP performing to that level in UK general election would possibly make people take note. In 2010 they got 919,471 votes across the entire UK. I suspect that the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberals did rather better than that.

Conservatives: 10,703,654
Labour: 8,606,517
Liberal: 6,836,268

Scarily, even the BNP got over 550,000 votes

You said that ".....UKIP have one Euro MP in Farage...."

Since 2009, they have in fact had 13 Euro MP's, the same as Labour and two more than the Lib Dums.

 

[Johnny75]

The landscape of the UK however, has drastically changed since 1989. Tony Blair saw to that in 2004 when he was the only Leader of a European Country to LIFT border controls !!

Having allowed the UK to be flooded with immigrants since then, because we no longer have a choice, maybe you should ask yourself why Liebour won't give the British Electorate a Referendum on Europe ?

If we all love the multicultural heaven that you so obviously cherish, another one of the 'benefits' of being in the EU, then why have so many white people moved out of London ?

I guess that's my question answered. Immigration it is then.

Now to answer yours..... enough people vote so enough people are bothered about UKIP being in Brussels. Funnily enough where they don't want to be. What would they do if we came out of Europe, what would their party become, where would all the crackpots go?

 

[keeptheexitsclear]

That just doesn't make any sense at all.

Do you not think there is a link between the EU shambles and the nightmare of forced immigration on the UK, and that this is a major contribution to the increased UKIP vote
for the Euro elections ?

I don't remember Labour or Blair telling us in their election manifesto what they were going to do with our borders in 2004, do you ?
I really detest Blair, Labour and many of their supporters so much.

 

[keeptheexitsclear]

I guess that's my question answered. Immigration it is then.

Now to answer yours..... enough people vote so enough people are bothered about UKIP being in Brussels. Funnily enough where they don't want to be. What would they do if we came out of Europe, what would their party become, where would all the crackpots go?

Johnny, I haven't answered your question yet but I will. Just give me a couple of days please.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

I am and always have been a Conservative voter. All the way back to the first time I could vote in 1992. Why should you detest someone because of the way they vote? Do you know them? Otherwise it seems quite a generalisation and somewhat unfair.

I hadn't noticed UK immigration being forced at all. Strange choice of word. Open would probably be rather more accurate, I feel. I am no Euro fan, I must admit. I am Welsh first, British second, and European a very distant third, but I still think we should be in Europe. The exact underlying cause for increased UKIP vote probably can't be tied down to one thing. Saying that, I stand by my point that until it transfers into Westminster representation, UKIP are very much a fringe party in UK politics.

 

[Paddingtonwolf]

You said that ".....UKIP have one Euro MP in Farage...."

Since 2009, they have in fact had 13 Euro MP's, the same as Labour and two more than the Lib Dums.

Apologies for my inaccuracy. However, I note how many Westminster MPs they have as well.

 

[Johnny75]

Johnny, I haven't answered your question yet but I will. Just give me a couple of days please.

You have already with phrases like 'forced immigration', 'multicultural heaven' and 'white people leaving London (sic)'. I don't think anybody was forced to come to this country and I don't know what the colour of somebody's skin has to do with immigration.

 

[visage]

Especially as EU immigration is predominantly white anyway.

 

[pavlosmacwolf]

removed for being nothing more than an angry rant

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Excuse me?