Farage Ltd and Similar Watch

[Tredman]

It's the left's fault that right wing politicians and media ferment and incite racism? mmkay

 

[So Long Architect]

Sadly I think if you're going to make a strategic decision to overtly appeal to racists then we're a long way from the tipping point. Bigotry has been legitimised over the last 18 months or so.

I hope Nuttall crashes and burns, the man is a cunt. Almost as bad as Farage.

Social media has been a game changer. Something like that cartoon could never appear on a billboard on the high street, but it can reach millions of like-minded souls on Twitter at the push of a button. Just look at what happened to the Tories with their devil-eyed Tony Blair poster in the 90s. Fairly mild by comparison but it proved a turn-off for the man on the Clapham Omnibus (what we now call "ordinary hard working families")

 

[leedswolf]

Social media has been a game changer. Something like that cartoon could never appear on a billboard on the high street, but it can reach millions of like-minded souls on Twitter at the push of a button. Just look at what happened to the Tories with their devil-eyed Tony Blair poster in the 90s. Fairly mild by comparison but it proved a turn-off for the man on the Clapham Omnibus (what we now call "ordinary hard working families")

"The man who travels to work each day on the No 57 Clapham omnibus". The legal definition of the 'reasonable man'. I paraphrase.

 

[thehistorymakers]

It's the left's fault that right wing politicians and media ferment and incite racism? mmkay

No, I never said that, but do you think the left is at all responsible for not having the infrastructure in place, for the influx of immigration over the last 20 years? Do you think the left sometimes have been guilty of using immigration as a ploy to defeat the right in the UK and at the same time have alienated the white working class, which was the traditional Labour voters? Hence the Left being now seen by many as unelectable.
It has been demonstrated that the wealthy and high density immigration areas of big cities voted to remain in the EU and white working class, industrial areas voted Brexit. Do you think the left played politics with immigration and lost?

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It's the left's fault that right wing politicians and media ferment and incite racism? mmkay

I love that argument, "it's the people who are diametrically opposed to us that make us racist".

By the way governments have plenty of legitimate, rock solid, legally enforceable mechanisms available to them to limit immigration from the EU. None of ours have taken those avenues in the last 25 years. Why do you think that is?

 

[Johnny75]

No, I never said that, but do you think the left is at all responsible for not having the infrastructure in place, for the influx of immigration over the last 20 years? Do you think the left sometimes have been guilty of using immigration as a ploy to defeat the right in the UK and at the same time have alienated the white working class, which was the traditional Labour voters? Hence the Left being now seen by many as unelectable.
It has been demonstrated that the wealthy and high density immigration areas of big cities voted to remain in the EU and white working class, industrial areas voted Brexit. Do you think the left played politics with immigration and lost?

Did you actually read any of the article I posted which debunked a lot of what you've written?

 

[thehistorymakers]

Did you actually read any of the article I posted which debunked a lot of what you've written?

It doesn't debunk it at all. There were rich educated people who voted Brexit too.
It has been demonstrated that white working class industrial areas voted Brexit and wealthy areas plus high immigration inner city areas voted remain. That comes from the most in depth study there has been on who voted for Brexit or remain. I read the article in the Guardian too. Haha

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

It has been demonstrated that white working class industrial areas voted Brexit

Yes, poor education, not understanding the issues and reaching out for something, anything for a change because Labour are currently useless and our FPTP system is both unfit for purpose and massively rigged in favour of the Tories who do no-one below a certain earnings threshold any favours at all.

Pretty sure this has been covered before.

 

[Johnny75]

It doesn't debunk it at all. There were rich educated people who voted Brexit too.
It has been demonstrated that white working class industrial areas voted Brexit and wealthy areas plus high immigration inner city areas voted remain. That comes from the most in depth study there has been on who voted for Brexit or remain. I read the article in the Guardian too. Haha

I have no doubt that there are certain areas that fit that description but your assertion doesn't contain a source nor does it consider age, employment or geographical location, merely the assertion 'it was the whites that won it'.

I find this whole argument distasteful. There is a conversation to have about immigration and one to have about about education, neither of which have been had for a long time and that is the biggest fault of Labour. They aren't an effective opposition right now and haven't been for the best part of 5 years.

I say this as somebody who leans to the right and feels as though I have no representation in our current system. It's a disgrace and the rhetoric of the far right disgusts me.

 

[So Long Architect]

UKIP cartoon-tweeting chappie: “Yesterday I retweeted a cartoon about the potential consequences of Labour’s support for uncontrolled immigration without realising it relied on a rhyme that had been used in an election in 1964 in a racially abusive context,”

Yeah, right. You're either a fucking liar or a fucking idiot. Probably both.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

Wow, would you believe it, one of the biggest coincidences in the world ever!

Except this cartoon in isolation is racially motivated you fucking tool.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Yes, poor education, not understanding the issues and reaching out for something, anything for a change

Dan, not going to university and not having a good education, has nothing to do with being intelligent. People often are faced with more realities and problems, because their salaries aren't so high and they have to struggle more to survive. More often people who are better educated and with higher salaries don't have to deal with the same things that poorer people have to put up with. The uneducated will vote for what they think will be better for them, the same as the better educated will do. The better educated will often vote more for what they see will make their lives better, that is logical, the same as the not so well educated will do. However, I think it is wrong to say because someone didn't go to university, that they don't understand the issues. I think it is more likely, that the two sets of people have different priorities and the issues that affect either group, will be in a different order of importance.

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

I didn't mention university at all.

 

[Penk Wolf]

The education thing is bullshit, I left school with 2 grade C GCSEs and was a team leader at a bank by 21.

You really don't need to have loads of qualifications to get on in life.

 

[Tony Towner]

Dan, not going to university and not having a good education, has nothing to do with being intelligent. People often are faced with more realities and problems, because their salaries aren't so high and they have to struggle more to survive. More often people who are better educated and with higher salaries don't have to deal with the same things that poorer people have to put up with. The uneducated will vote for what they think will be better for them, the same as the better educated will do. The better educated will often vote more for what they see will make their lives better, that is logical, the same as the not so well educated will do. However, I think it is wrong to say because someone didn't go to university, that they don't understand the issues. I think it is more likely, that the two sets of people have different priorities and the issues that affect either group, will be in a different order of importance.

The ill politically educated will vote for what they are coerced into thinking because their political engagement is limited...see 1979/83/87/92 as evidence. It pains me to say it but 'the Sun won it' as much as Kinnock lost it in 92

 

[Deutsch Wolf]

The education thing is bullshit, I left school with 2 grade C GCSEs and was a team leader at a bank by 21.

You really don't need to have loads of qualifications to get on in life.

Didn't mention qualifications either.

 

[Penk Wolf]

Didn't mention qualifications either.

Sorry, was responding to THM's constantly going on about the uneducated.

 

[thehistorymakers]

I didn't mention university at all.

I thought that was what you were talking about when you mentioned poor education.

 

[thehistorymakers]

Sorry, was responding to THM's constantly going on about the uneducated.

I thought that was what Dan was on about, when he mentioned poor education and not understanding the issues. That is why I mentioned education.

 

[The Saturday Boy]

Do you ever think that may be the left in the UK, is partly responsible for the movement to the right? ( as you would see it). I mean things like, when Tony Blair could have put a limited time period, before workers from the new EU countries from the old Eastern block, would be allowed to move to the UK. I think the likes of Germany and most of the other EU countries, had several years grace, before people from those countries could move to their respective countries. I only say this, because if someone lives in a poor country, without work or money and all of a sudden they are part of the EU, it is quite obvious where they will end up. Wait several years to go to Germany, or move directly to the UK. It is quite obvious that housing and health services haven't been able to keep up and so, the people who worked and paid in to the system, have often seen their living standards fall. I think if you push any population far enough, sooner or later they will react.
I am not going to defend racism, be it in newspaper articles or in party political propaganda. They are exploiting the disenfranchisement of many normal working people. It would be wrong to target many Brexit voters with agreeing to over the top racist views as it would be to say all people who support bringing more refugees, are communists.

Everything before the words "I am not going to defend racism" is you defending racism. You are basically saying people have legitimate reasons for their racism.

And even if there was any merit in your "it's the left's fault" Tony Blair's decisions were straight out of what most consider right wing economic theory.